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Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. 10 Oct '05 01:01
    I just thought of this today and it kinda stumped me, and i suddenly knew exactly where to ask it- the rhp forums.

    There is no mass in space, yet scientists say that space is a few degrees above absolute zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes mass to have temperature, right? How can space be massless and still have temperature?
  2. 10 Oct '05 01:10 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by obvek
    I just thought of this today and it kinda stumped me, and i suddenly knew exactly where to ask it- the rhp forums.

    There is no mass in space, yet scientists say that space is a few degrees above absolute zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes mass to have temperature, right? How can space be massless and still have temperature?
    I think you mean zero-gravity, right?
    Because you can't feel the affect earth's gravity pulling you, but it still is actually.
    Weight is a measurement of gravity on mass. Mass does not change with gravity, weight does.

    Temperature is just measurement of kinetic energy of atomic particles.
    All matter has no kinetic energy "freezes/stops" at absolute zero. in theory.
    This explains why objects expand and contract with temp.
    Also why elements or compounds are more reactive with higher temps.

    So yes, you must have mass to have a measurable temp, basicly.

    Or is mass and temp is a property of matter? So matter is needed. I thinks thats a better answer.

    I have no degree on the topic. So you and I will be set straight soon.
  3. 10 Oct '05 01:18
    Originally posted by obvek
    I just thought of this today and it kinda stumped me, and i suddenly knew exactly where to ask it- the rhp forums.

    There is no mass in space, yet scientists say that space is a few degrees above absolute zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes mass to have temperature, right? How can space be massless and still have temperature?
    Well, your average bit of space isn't completely devoid of matter; it has bits of dust and stuff in it too. And, of course, your thermometer .
  4. 10 Oct '05 01:43
    So what is the temp of a single free proton or neutron as it flies through your skull like a bullet.

    Astronauts say they see flashes of light when free particles like this pass trough their retinas.

    All solid matter is mostly empty space.
  5. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    10 Oct '05 05:23
    Pressure in space is in the order of 10^-20 Pa (Pascals).
    It's not zero.
  6. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    10 Oct '05 06:07
    Correct. Space is obviously not mass-less. There are things like insterstellar dust, comets, and meteors, and asteroids, and planets and stars and galaxies and stuff in it. Not to mention nebulas and stuff given off by supernovas and quite a bit more free hydrogen than you'd expect. AND not to mention somewhat hypothetical stuff, like dark matter.

    While the local tempurature, like inside star systems, is quite a bit above absolute zero, there is a heck of a lot of space between galaxies that is relatively matter-free, and therefore a lot closer to absolute zero. So much so that the hypothesis is that the overall average temp of the universe ends up being slightly above absolute zero.
  7. Standard member Bowmann
    Non-Subscriber
    10 Oct '05 16:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by obvek
    I just thought of this today and it kinda stumped me, and i suddenly knew exactly where to ask it- the rhp forums.

    There is no mass in space, yet scientists say that space is a few degrees above absolute zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes mass to have temperature, right? How can space be massless and still have temperature?
    The "vacuum" of space is essentially mass-free. There's around 1 atom of hydrogen per cubic centimetre.

    The reason why the temperature is not absolute zero is very simple. Absolute zero, or 0 Kelvin, does not exist anywhere. It's a theoretical temperature, if you like. Heat travels from a warm area to a cooler one. That's how things cool down. So, for absolute zero to exist, there would have to exist a place which is cooler still. And this is not possible.
  8. 12 Oct '05 02:13
    So what you're saying is that the scientists, when they give the average temperature of space, are actually giving the average temperaturo of the gas, dust and other particles floating around out there?
  9. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    12 Oct '05 05:41
    Originally posted by obvek
    So what you're saying is that the scientists, when they give the average temperature of space, are actually giving the average temperaturo of the gas, dust and other particles floating around out there?
    Replace the second temperature with average velocity and yes.
  10. 12 Oct '05 13:11
    What the heck!! Cant we discuss issues that could feed the hungry, I love space and everything in it but this discussion has no relevence to any of our lives.

    How can we feed the hungry?
  11. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    12 Oct '05 14:02
    Originally posted by Alan "Soylent" Green
    What the heck!! Cant we discuss issues that could feed the hungry, I love space and everything in it but this discussion has no relevence to any of our lives.

    How can we feed the hungry?
    We could feed you to them. That would help a little bit.
  12. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    12 Oct '05 17:56
    rOriginally posted by obvek
    I just thought of this today and it kinda stumped me, and i suddenly knew exactly where to ask it- the rhp forums.

    There is no mass in space, yet scientists say that space is a few degrees above absolute zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes mass to have temperature, right? How can space be massless and still have temperature?
    What the temperature of space means there is a background of
    microwave radiation that would heat something very cold, say at 1
    degree Kelvin, up to the tempurature of 2.73 degrees Kelvin.
    It has nothing to do with mass, its just microwave radiation which
    is the leftover radiation from the big bang but because the universe
    has expanded to billions of light years across, this radiation has
    been stretched out by the same amount, so it originally was a much
    higher frequency, shorter wavelength, and thus a higher tempurature
    but if you make the wavelength longer, the energy content per
    packet of radiation (each wavelength) goes down. I am not sure what
    the original wavelength was, ten times higher, hundreds of times,
    not sure but its been measured at 2.73 degrees Kelvin.
    It also doesn't matter which direction you point your antenna, its nearly
    the same in all directions. Thats what won the Nobel prize for Pensias
    and his buddies.
  13. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    12 Oct '05 19:22
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What the temperature of space means there is a background of
    microwave radiation that would heat something very cold, say at 1
    degree Kelvin, up to the tempurature of 2.73 degrees Kelvin.
    It has nothing to do with mass, its just microwave radiation which
    is the leftover radiation from the big bang but because the universe
    has expanded to billions of ...[text shortened]... nearly
    the same in all directions. Thats what won the Nobel prize for Pensias
    and his buddies.
    You continue to fail to read threads.
  14. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    12 Oct '05 19:29
    Originally posted by Alan Green
    What the heck!! Cant we discuss issues that could feed the hungry, I love space and everything in it but this discussion has no relevence to any of our lives.

    How can we feed the hungry?
    What about those hungry for information?
  15. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    12 Oct '05 21:41
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    You continue to fail to read threads.
    That is the origin for the temp, 2.73 K. You mention the E-20 Pa
    as a pressure. Is that the pressure of the total gas in the universe
    averaged over its apparent volume? Or are you referring to the
    expansion of space itself? If it is the former, a 'tempurature' of
    space may be worked out, the average temp of all the gas in the
    universe but there is still the CBR of 2.73K. Two differant things.