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Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. 09 Dec '08 19:41
    What is the fastest slatemate possible in chess? From the bigenning.
  2. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    09 Dec '08 20:22
    Originally posted by Sophy
    What is the fastest slatemate possible in chess? From the bigenning.
    Too easy.
  3. 09 Dec '08 20:29
    Then, can you show it to me ?
  4. 09 Dec '08 21:16
    Originally posted by Sophy
    What is the fastest slatemate possible in chess? From the bigenning.
    http://www.anusha.com/samloyd.htm
  5. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    09 Dec '08 21:23
    Originally posted by Sophy
    Then, can you show it to me ?
    I meant it would be too easy to pick apart your spelling and grammar. The fastest stalemate appears to belong to well-known puzzle composer Sam Loyd:

    1.e3 a5 2.Qh5 Ra6 3.Qxa5 h5 4.Qxc7 Rah6 5.h4 f6 6.Qxd7+ Kf7 7.Qxb7 Qd3 8.Qxb8 Qh7 9.Qxc8 Kg6 10.Qe6

    Apparently Frederick Rhine had to have a kick at the can too:

    1.d4 c5 2.dxc5 f6 3.Qxd7+ Kf7 4.Qxd8 Bf5 5.Qxb8 h5 6.Qxa8 Rh6 7.Qxb7 a6 8.Qxa6 Bh7 9.h4 Kg6 10.Qe6
  6. 10 Dec '08 14:58


    For stalemate in 12 without captures.
    Stalemate in 10 is shortest, as shown above.
  7. Standard member afx
    10 Dec '08 23:48 / 1 edit
    Lloyd showed us this beautiful stalemate in 10..
    But nobody proofed, that this is really the fastest one.
    Did anyone //proof//, that there is no stalemate in 9?
    Even with the silicon friend?
  8. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    13 Dec '08 05:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by afx
    Lloyd showed us this beautiful stalemate in 10..
    But nobody proofed, that this is really the fastest one.
    Did anyone //proof//, that there is no stalemate in 9?
    Even with the silicon friend?
    Not so easy to do that, even for silicon.

    18 ply of brute-force calculation takes a looooong time still. [Plus you need a custom-written program just for the task.]
  9. Standard member afx
    14 Dec '08 22:45
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Not so easy to do that, even for silicon.

    18 ply of brute-force calculation takes a looooong time still. [Plus you need a custom-written program just for the task.]
    I did not say, that it is easy!
    Brute force is obviously the wrong way.
    But think of a retro game, b.f. would be no solution, either!
    You have here a very complicated retro, even the end position
    is not fixed, just the 18 ply and the stalemate.

    The "custom written program" is not the problem. Firstly, in principle
    you need one for every retro game.
    Secondly, I could use the one I have written already ;-)
  10. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    15 Dec '08 02:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by afx
    I did not say, that it is easy!
    Brute force is obviously the wrong way.
    But think of a retro game, b.f. would be no solution, either!
    You have here a very complicated retro, even the end position
    is not fixed, just the 18 ply and the stalemate.

    The "custom written program" is not the problem. Firstly, in principle
    you need one for every retro game.
    Secondly, I could use the one I have written already ;-)
    I'm not sure about your use of terminology.

    If, by 'retro game', you mean 'proof game', then there are already programs that will solve most of those. And you wouldn't need multiple programs for it.

    I would call this a 'construction task'. There are few programs that actually compose retro problems, and that's what you'd need to write [maybe your program indeed does this; again, I'm not quite sure what some of your terms mean].
  11. 16 Dec '08 06:44
  12. Subscriber D4V
    Hard Spanker
    25 Dec '08 22:09