29 May 05
Originally posted by schakuhrI don't know if I'm missing something, but if the white rook moves to a4 black wins. Ra4 is followed by Rxh4+. White moves his king and loses his rook. Did I read the board incorrectly somehow?
[fen]8/6k1/R5p1/7p/5K1P/7r/8/8 - - 3 51[/fen]
It seems like a good move for white would be Kg5.
29 May 05
Originally posted by LockheedThe point of the puzzle is that Ra4 Rxh4+ Kg5 Rxa4 = stalemate
I don't know if I'm missing something, but if the white rook moves to a4 black wins. Ra4 is followed by Rxh4+. White moves his king and loses his rook. Did I read the board incorrectly somehow?
It seems like a good move for white would be Kg5.
29 May 05
Originally posted by Lockheed1.Kg5? Rg3+ 2.Kf4 Rg4+ wins the h-pawn. I'd imagine Black wins with the two connected passers.
I don't know if I'm missing something, but if the white rook moves to a4 black wins. Ra4 is followed by Rxh4+. White moves his king and loses his rook. Did I read the board incorrectly somehow?
It seems like a good move for white would be Kg5.
It appears that only 1.Ra4! draws. The puzzle has a nice paradox to it - at first this move looks like a senseless blunder, yet it is the only move that saves the game.
30 May 05
Originally posted by Mephisto2My point is that I don't understand <i>why</i> that equals stalemate. If black takes white's pawn and rook he can force mate by making a pawn run. Hell he doesn't have to do that. It's just quicker. You can checkmate someone with a king and a rook if all he's got left is his king.
The point of the puzzle is that Ra4 Rxh4+ Kg5 Rxa4 = stalemate
30 May 05
Originally posted by LockheedHave a look again. After Ra4 Rxh4+ Kg5 Rxa4, white has to move. He is not in check, but what move can he make?
My point is that I don't understand <i>why</i> that equals stalemate. If black takes white's pawn and rook he can force mate by making a pawn run. Hell he doesn't have to do that. It's just quicker. You can checkmate someone with a king and a rook if all he's got left is his king.
30 May 05
Originally posted by Mephisto2Ah! Thank you. I completely forgot the possiblity of that sort of stalemate for a moment there. I was thinking to myself, "These guys are nuts. You can draw this thing out to fifty moves when your opponent has two pawns and a rook to his name!"
Have a look again. After Ra4 Rxh4+ Kg5 Rxa4, white has to move. He is not in check, but what move can he make?
30 May 05
Originally posted by schakuhrWell okay. It still seems like black can win if white moves Ra4. Help me out here:
[fen]8/6k1/R5p1/7p/5K1P/7r/8/8 - - 3 51[/fen]
1. Ra4 Rxh4+ 2. Kg5 Rg4+ 3. Rxg4 h5xg4
After that, whether or not the white king takes the pawn at g4 (which he probably will), black can force a pawn through to promotion. Though looking at it, it seems like white can still force a draw at that point. Is it possible for black to avoid the stalemate? (I'm quickly turning this into a lesson for which I apologize)
30 May 05
Originally posted by LockheedThat is a theoretical draw (after 4.Kxg4 or even Kh4 or Kf4). The black king cannot get in front of his pawn. Black can push the pawn, supported by his king, but the only thing white has to make sure of is that it has to be black's move (i.e. white has the opposition) in the following position:
Well okay. It still seems like black can win if white moves Ra4. Help me out here:
1. Ra4 Rxh4+ 2. Kg5 Rg4+ 3. Rxg4 h5xg4
After that, whether or not the white king takes the pawn at g4 (which he probably will), black can force a pawn through to promotion. Though looking at it, it seems like white can still force a draw at that point. Is it possible for black to avoid the stalemate? (I'm quickly turning this into a lesson for which I apologize)
black cannot make progress since g3+ Kg1 Kg3 (if not the pawn is lost) = stalemate.
If white were to move, then black wins easily e.g.Kg1 g3 and white has only Kh2 allowing black's king to move to f2 and promote the pawn