Originally posted by orfeo OMG, the day I actually attempt to understand a puzzle like this, I will know my chess addiction has reached a whole new level.
Which is not to be nasty to those of you who DO understand it, I'm just saying that anything that expects me to see more than a few moves ahead is so beyond the realms of understanding, it might as well be written in Swahili.
It is easy to understand the solution if you just replay the moves at http://www.chessbase.com/puzzle/games/puz7.htm
Originally posted by orfeo OMG, the day I actually attempt to understand a puzzle like this, I will know my chess addiction has reached a whole new level.
Which is not to be nasty to those of you who DO understand it, I'm just saying that anything that expects me t ...[text shortened]... e realms of understanding, it might as well be written in Swahili.
The length of a problem does not have much influence on its difficulty. In this case, although the solution is 272 moves, the concept (repeating zugzwang) is straightforward. I could probably post some #4 or #5 that would be harder to solve than this problem.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem The length of a problem does not have much influence on its difficulty. In this case, although the solution is 272 moves, the concept (repeating zugzwang) is straightforward. I could probably post some #4 or #5 that would be harder to solve than this problem.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem You're missing a black defense or two.
I am not sure what I am missing:
1...Bb2 2.Ne3#; 1...Be3 2.Nxe3# are not worth mentioning.
1...Nf8 2.exfQ+ or 1...Nf6 2.Bxf6 and 3.Rf4++# also; so we are left with
1...Bd7 and 1...Bf7 to which 2.e8Q Bxe8 3.Ne7# mates easlily; and I cannot see another sound defence.
Originally posted by ilywrin I am not sure what I am missing:
1...Bb2 2.Ne3#; 1...Be3 2.Nxe3# are not worth mentioning.
1...Nf8 2.exfQ+ or 1...Nf6 2.Bxf6 and 3.Rf4++# also; so we are left with
1...Bd7 and 1...Bf7 to which 2.e8Q Bxe8 3.Ne7# mates easlily; and I cannot see another sound defence.
Originally posted by orfeo OMG, the day I actually attempt to understand a puzzle like this, I will know my chess addiction has reached a whole new level.
Which is not to be nasty to those of you who DO understand it, I'm just saying that anything that expects me to see more than a few moves ahead is so beyond the realms of understanding, it might as well be written in Swahili.
BigDogg was right the problem was actually not very difficult once the basic principle is understood. After some playing around it becomes clear that black is zugzwang and that must be capitalized on. Then the method to do so just jumps at you. The fact that it is a composed problem helps immensely as the unusual setup must have a purpose.
In fact having another quick look at the final position I posted the hard bit was the bit I left. Getting to where I left the problem is simple solving the remainder actually requires a lot of calculation.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem 1.Bd4 h1N 2.Nxe8 Bf4! is one example.
I see now 🙁
Okay so that variant should go
1...h1N!? 2.Kxc1 (threatens 3.Ne3🙄 2...Nc4 3.Nxe8 (4.Ng7🙄 3...Ke6 4.Ng7+ and now 4...Kf7(d7) 5.e8Q#; 4...Kxd5 5.Bg2#
Originally posted by ilywrin I see now 🙁
Okay so that variant should go
1...h1N!? 2.Kxc1 (threatens 3.Ne3🙄 2...Nc4 3.Nxe8 (4.Ng7🙄 3...Ke6 4.Ng7+ and now 4...Kf7(d7) 5.e8Q#; 4...Kxd5 5.Bg2#
The difficulty in this problem is not so much the key as it is getting a complete solution.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem The difficulty in this problem is not so much the key as it is getting a complete solution.
Instead of 2...Nc4, Black could try 2...Nb3+.
Did I miss that? 🙁
2...Nb3+ 3.Kb2 Nxd4 4.Rg3+ Ke5 5.Re3 #
Actually yes the first move is pretty obvious: it is the only that mates in 5 after 1...h1Q, so it must be the solution. I should have looked more closely in the other variant but somehow a problem always loses its charm for me after the first move has been found.
Originally posted by ilywrin Did I miss that? 🙁
2...Nb3+ 3.Kb2 Nxd4 4.Rg3+ Ke5 5.Re3 #
Actually yes the first move is pretty obvious: it is the only that mates in 5 after 1...h1Q, so it must be the solution. I should have looked more closely in the other variant but somehow a problem always loses its charm for me after the first move has been found.
I agree with you about the key to this problem. Ideally, a difficult problem should have a difficult key.
WHITE TO PLAY AND MATE IN 272 MOVES!
24 Jun '05 11:11
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