Build The Enterprise.

murphius

Science

01 Jun '12 16:23

Thequ1ck
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08 Jun '12 00:402 edits
Wow this is geeky.

If the mountain won't come to Mohammad....

Anyone that hasn't read Dan Symmonds 'Hyperion' series should.

It talks of using self-replicating printers to manufacture an entire solar system in to nano-computers. Then exporting human consciousness into them.

The Enterprise will be build...eventually. That is the nature of science fact.

All this talk of dragging messy, smelly, inefficient humans about the cosmos is just lions and tigers and bears.
AThousandYoung
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08 Jun '12 04:19
Originally posted by Thequ1ck
just lions and tigers and bears.
YouTube
Thequ1ck
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08 Jun '12 04:443 edits
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ALsvU50wQ
I'm just saying there's no money in sending people into space that's why it wont happen, why it's not happening. Maybe an orbital station for the rich elderly to rot in zero G comfort, that's about it.

Now send a low payload rocket filled with robots up and you could sell total immersion timeshares to people and make money.

I expect this is how will most likely mine the first asteroid now that's mega bucks.

Let's see 1000 robots running for 20 years at a rate of $100/hr would bring in $1,728,000,000

Of course you wouldn't need to send 1000 robots, just a handful that have the capability to build each other.

I suppose you'd need some kind of a design for a spaceship to put them in or for them to build out there...
twhitehead
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08 Jun '12 07:55
Originally posted by googlefudge
Why would the 'nice scenery' need to be simulated?
OK, so maybe I wasn't thinking big enough.
But considering the size of those things, it seems all that material has to come from somewhere. It seems to contradict all your talk of the costs of shifting stuff into and out of orbit. Surely the cost of building those things would far outweigh the cost of building a similar structure on Mars out Mars materials?
googlefudge
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08 Jun '12 12:29
Originally posted by twhitehead
OK, so maybe I wasn't thinking big enough.
But considering the size of those things, it seems all that material has to come from somewhere. It seems to contradict all your talk of the costs of shifting stuff into and out of orbit. Surely the cost of building those things would far outweigh the cost of building a similar structure on Mars out Mars materials?
Yes the materiel does have to come from somewhere...

The somewhere is asteroids.

You are proposing building ships to carry people and equipment needed to build habitats on Mars.

I am proposing building ships to carry people and equipment needed to build habitats out of asteroids.

The difference, Is that I don't need to burden my space craft with the considerable extra gear and fuel
needed to land on a planet, and I can make money in the process (before I make money selling the
living space in my habitats) by selling the valuable rare earth minerals I extract from the asteroid.
twhitehead
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08 Jun '12 14:00
Originally posted by googlefudge
The difference, Is that I don't need to burden my space craft with the considerable extra gear and fuel
needed to land on a planet,
I am not convinced it is significant when compared to the difficulties of building all that in space. There are many benefits to being on a planet.

and I can make money in the process (before I make money selling the
living space in my habitats) by selling the valuable rare earth minerals I extract from the asteroid.
I don't think so. I think you will be buying all your stuff from the mining company which will be a separate entity.
VoidSpirit
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08 Jun '12 17:09
Originally posted by twhitehead
I am not convinced it is significant when compared to the difficulties of building all that in space. There are many benefits to being on a planet.

[b] and I can make money in the process (before I make money selling the
living space in my habitats) by selling the valuable rare earth minerals I extract from the asteroid.
I don't think so. I think you will be buying all your stuff from the mining company which will be a separate entity.[/b]
he is talking as the mining company.
humy
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08 Jun '12 19:533 edits
Has anyone here considered this as a way of continually mining asteroid materials for almost absolutely free once the process is started with some initial start-up costs:

make a few AI robots with solar panels plus some factory equipment that are put on the moon were the robots are programmed to use the resources there to create more robots of their own kind and more solar panels plus more factory equipment which make more robots etc i.e. they multiply all over the surface of the moon by themselves with the help of solar energy. Then make magnetic rail guns for launching stuff into space.
Then strip-mine the moon and continually send the most precious materials to Earth using the magnetic rail guns.

Then, using the magnetic rail guns, launch vessels with robots and equipment to the asteroids to mine the most precious materials from them and send them to Earth as well.

All this can be done with no expense putting people into space but instead put just a few initial robots and equipment on the moon that don't need life support so the costs would not only be less but, once the robots multiply and become self-sufficient, there would be absolutely no more cost for us because they will do all the work for us.
googlefudge
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08 Jun '12 20:24
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
he is talking as the mining company.
Yeah, I see no reason why these would be separate entities, particularly as the present day
companies planning to do asteroid mining are planning to do precisely this.
googlefudge
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08 Jun '12 20:26
Originally posted by humy
Has anyone here considered this as a way of continually mining asteroid materials for almost absolutely free once the process is started with some initial start-up costs:

make a few AI robots with solar panels plus some factory equipment that are put on the moon were the robots are programmed to use the resources there to create more robots of their own kind ...[text shortened]... icient, there would be absolutely no more cost for us because they will do all the work for us.
Yes it's been thought of...

The tricky part is encapsulated in the sentence "make a few AI robots..."

Work out how to do that and you can basically mint money.
(or make it cease to exist in a post scarcity society)
VoidSpirit
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09 Jun '12 01:49
Originally posted by humy
Has anyone here considered this as a way of continually mining asteroid materials for almost absolutely free once the process is started with some initial start-up costs:

make a few AI robots with solar panels plus some factory equipment that are put on the moon were the robots are programmed to use the resources there to create more robots of their own kind ...[text shortened]... icient, there would be absolutely no more cost for us because they will do all the work for us.
you want to make self replicating robots with AI, guns and unlimited resources.

wise?
humy
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09 Jun '12 10:231 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
you want to make self replicating robots with AI, guns and unlimited resources.

wise?
“guns”? no. Of course not.
I was implicitly thinking vaguely along the lines that they should be programmed to DO NO HARM ( to humanity )
twhitehead
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09 Jun '12 12:49
Originally posted by humy
Has anyone here considered this as a way of continually mining asteroid materials for almost absolutely free once the process is started with some initial start-up costs:
If it could be done we would do it here on earth first. Keep in mind though that once that happens, you are out of a job 🙂
googlefudge
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09 Jun '12 13:02
Originally posted by twhitehead
If it could be done we would do it here on earth first. Keep in mind though that once that happens, you are out of a job 🙂
Yes but on the other hand the need to earn money has also vanished.

If everything can be produced for free by non-sentient AI (not about to enslave sentient
beings and then get surprised when they rise up and wipe us out) then you can have
whatever you want (within the limits of materiel availability) for free, so what's the point
of earning money?

You have basically just created a post scarcity civilisation.
twhitehead
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09 Jun '12 14:30
Originally posted by googlefudge
You have basically just created a post scarcity civilisation.
Which is something I am somewhat sceptical about. One would think that once we were fed and clothed we would be happy, but that simply doesn't happen. We always seem to want more. I suppose that there is some limit to our greed.
What of power (political)? Would we no longer desire power if we had everything we wanted?

I think a post scarcity society would require a culture shift for most of us, but I believe that some commune type groups have managed to achieve something along those lines.

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