Originally posted by humyWhen I was a kid, 6 or 8 yo, living in Southern California, my parents would take me to the beach in the morning before daylight at these special times when the 'grunion' were running, a tiny fish the size of a taco, comes up the beach to spawn, but by the millions.
Now i have just watched the BBC documentary on the matter.
I see from it that there is a vast amount of insect food in the wild, often of pest insects such as grasshoppers, that can be harvested and feed millions. That would be a win win situation for it will help control the pest insects and people would be making a good living just collecting them and it wo ...[text shortened]... h directly and indirectly by controlling pest insects that eat farm crops.
I am very impressed!
That was a blast getting a bucket of them and cooking them on a spit on the beach!
Can you imagine a similar situation with grasshopper invasions of farm land with thousands of people catching them with nets or something?
Originally posted by humyActually that just wouldn't work out. Harvesting them in the wild as a means of pest control would not only result in very large quantities, but would be far too labour intensive.
I see from it that there is a vast amount of insect food in the wild, often of pest insects such as grasshoppers, that can be harvested and feed millions. That would be a win win situation for it will help control the pest insects ....
If anything we should avoid pest species as commercially farming them may result in accidental releases causing havoc to farmers of crops.
Originally posted by sonhouseI recall as a child seeing the neighbours children running after and catching flying ants which they later cooked and eat. If I recall correctly I sometime joined in the catching, but not the eating.
Can you imagine a similar situation with grasshopper invasions of farm land with thousands of people catching them with nets or something?
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhat a killjoy🙂 One of these days I am going to try the fried grasshopper thing and see how they taste.
I recall as a child seeing the neighbours children running after and catching flying ants which they later cooked and eat. If I recall correctly I sometime joined in the catching, but not the eating.
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Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually that just wouldn't work out. Harvesting them in the wild as a means of pest control would not only result in very large quantities, but would be far too labour intensive.
If anything we should avoid pest species as commercially farming them may result in accidental releases causing havoc to farmers of crops.
but would be far too labour intensive.
I am not sure what you mean by “too” labour intensive in this context. It is already profitable to collect pest insects for food in some parts of the world (the video link showed this ) because some people are already doing and making a reasonable living from it! There would be a large amount of labour involved in collecting them but, looking at that from the more positive angle, that means it creates jobs and reduces unemployment!
may result in accidental releases
I am sure reasonable safety steps, legally enforced if necessary, can be made to keep the incidences of accidental releases so infrequent that the economic benefits of such insect farming would greatly out way the economic damage to crops by the occasional accidental release. I don't see this as a potential showstopper here.
Methane gas can do a lot of damage when it accidentally is released and explodes and that isn't a showstopper in its use because we simply enforce reasonable safety steps to make most of us think that the incidences of accidental releases so infrequent that the economical benefits of its use generally outweigh its 'safety costs' (the global warming issue being another issue )
Having said all that though, I cannot help but wonder if a better policy would be for everyone to simply go completely vegetarian.
Originally posted by sonhouseUsing insect farms. It's actually a lot easier than producing beef.
One question: Considering the what, 100 million tons? of beef and such produced every year around the world, how would we ever match that kind of tonnage of insects even if we could convince people to eat them?
Originally posted by twhiteheadNot to mention any pesticides they may have eaten. Has anyone checked that farming insects is any more efficient than farming mammals? You still need to feed the things, and there is no point in replacing mammal meat with insect meat if they have the same energy inputs per pound of meat. I haven't checked the facts, but the advocates of this may assume the full insect weight for insect production and not count bones with mammals.
Actually that just wouldn't work out. Harvesting them in the wild as a means of pest control would not only result in very large quantities, but would be far too labour intensive.
If anything we should avoid pest species as commercially farming them may result in accidental releases causing havoc to farmers of crops.
What currently unknown or rare diseases can one get from eating insects? Have the potential risks actually been investigated? Is replacing an ethical (*) mammal farm with a high-intensity insect farm really a step forward. How do we intend to produce milk, is this as well as or instead of current animal production?
(*) I realise some may regard farming mammals as intrinsically unethical, but I meant that in the sense of being run with consideration for the animals' welfare up to the point it is killed.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtVery good questions indeed.
Not to mention any pesticides they may have eaten. Has anyone checked that farming insects is any more efficient than farming mammals? You still need to feed the things, and there is no point in replacing mammal meat with insect meat if they have the same energy inputs per pound of meat. I haven't checked the facts, but the advocates of this may assum ...[text shortened]... the sense of being run with consideration for the animals' welfare up to the point it is killed.
Originally posted by sonhouseIf there is a demand for milk, people will produce it.
I imagine it would be but what about not having milk any more? I guess that would lessen the amount of lactose intolerance illnesses around the globe, but we need SOMETHING like milk.
As for "needing" milk, I don't see why.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraCan you give a reference for that claim?
Yes. It is.
The Wikipedia page claims that it requires four times less feed than beef cattle, as the insects gain body heat from the environment. They then talk about the amount of fossil fuels needed to produce beef, but do not talk about fossil fuel use in insect farming. This is fine in hot countries, but could be a problem in Northern Europe, where the insects will all die in winter due to not being heated unless one uses fossil fuels to keep them warm. The harvested insects will need cutting up, presumably mechanically, and transported to the shops, so is the fossil fuel use really going to be lower?
My experience of these things is that enthusiastic people have a tendency to understate the problems with what they want to do and overstate the problems with existing production. So until I see some scientific data I'm not going to assume that the comparisons have been done correctly.
I've got to admit that I'm not over-excited at the prospect of eating a bug - which is illogical as I'll happily eat cold water prawns. Warm water prawns I won't as it is one of the most ecologically damaging forms of farming that exists. I wonder if something similar will happen with insects. Vegetables are known to be safe. So frankly if meat production is all that much of a problem we may as well just become vegetarians and those that feel the need for meat can supplement with a spot of hunting.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraMilk is used in EVERYTHING, bread, puddings, ice cream, cakes, coatings for cooking, besides just drinking.
If there is a demand for milk, people will produce it.
As for "needing" milk, I don't see why.
If there is a demand for it we are back to milking mammals, I thought that was what we were trying to avoid, the biological cost of raising mammals.
Originally posted by sonhouseWho are "we"? I'm just saying it makes sense, economically, to farm insects rather than mammals for meat, and that I expect insect consumption to increase significantly in the future.
Milk is used in EVERYTHING, bread, puddings, ice cream, cakes, coatings for cooking, besides just drinking.
If there is a demand for it we are back to milking mammals, I thought that was what we were trying to avoid, the biological cost of raising mammals.
All of the applications of milk have non-milk replacements, although of course not necessarily equally tasty (depending on one's preferences).