For Metal Brain: Read this

Originally posted by humy
-which is totally irrelevant even if true because that doesn't in the slightest logically entail natural causes is still the primary cause of the continuation of the warming trend we are observing today for there is no logical contradiction in something being initiated by only natural causes but then massively exacerbated and made to persist via man made causes ...[text shortened]... via natural causes not involving C)2 thus all you deniers including you have been proven wrong.

"I have already explained and shown the scientific proof that rules out any creditable possibility of the current warming, not to be confused with any past warming which has now been rendered irrelevant, that the current warming is primarily caused by natural causes."

No, you have done nothing of the sort. You are a liar!

"This proof is the very recent dramatic cooling of the stratosphere relative to the troposphere; something that only can be explained via CO2 induced warming as being the primary cause"

You have offered no proof of this at all. I find it ridiculous that you bought into that weak theory. You cannot measure those two things during the Pliocene so it is stupid of you to jump to that conclusion without anything to compare it to. If CO2 is the only thing that can explain it then tell us why. You have never done that and I suspect you never will.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"I have already explained and shown the scientific proof that rules out any creditable possibility of the current warming, not to be confused with any past warming which has now been rendered irrelevant, that the current warming is primarily caused by natural causes."

No, you have done nothing of the sort. You are a liar!

There is good evidence that much of the cooling of the stratosphere is caused by the man made CFCs (which, incidentally, is further evidence, if any were needed, that man can effect climate). However, no-where near all of it can be explained by CFCs and the remaining cooling can only be explained by CO2.

Here is what science says:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/why-does-the-stratosphere-cool-when-the-troposphere-warms/
" the key point for this discussion is that increasing greenhouse gases increases the temperature gradient from the surface.
..."

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/10/what-is-the-evidence-that-co2/
"...Just to pile on, here are some rather key specific observations beyond the rise in seasonally averaged global temperature that fit in well with an enhanced greenhouse effect (the relevant effect of increasing CO2 concentrations). These observations do not fit with other potential forcings.

Temperatures have risen more at night than during the day. This really defeats the notion of a solar powered climate change on its face.
The stratosphere is cooling. Models that predict the warming we are seeing also predict this particular feature of the current climate change.
An increasingly enhanced greenhouse effect should cause an energy imbalance between incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared radiation. This has been detected.

So to summarize: we know anthropogenic climate change is real because there is no other likely candidate cause, the CO2 rise is unquestionably the result of our activities, the particulars of the warming signature are consistent with an enhanced greenhouse effect and the whole phenomenon is entirely consistent with very long standing theories and expectations.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, why on earth would you think it is a galactic cosmic ray?..."

https://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm
"...
here is other evidence of warming: :
...
Satellite measurements show that the troposphere is warming
The stratosphere is cooling as predicted by anthropogenic global warming theory (this cannot be explained by solar variability)
..."

So now I have shown you the proof yet again and from several independent sources, what is your counterargument? Are you going to just idiotically just repeat I am a 'liar' about showing the proof even though I have shown you the proof yet again? -you convince nobody here.

Originally posted by humy
If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, why on earth would you think it is a galactic cosmic ray?..."

Because he believes he will have to pay carbon taxes if he admits to global warming. (plus its rather embarrassing to change you mind on this sort of thing).

Originally posted by twhitehead
Because he believes he will have to pay carbon taxes if he admits to global warming. (plus its rather embarrassing to change you mind on this sort of thing).

He has admitted global warming is real, just doesn't believe mankind is the main culprit, instead, natural cycles way overriding human efforts. He doesn't believe, for instance, that rising CO2 means rising temperatures, his cause and effect thing is backwards, he thinks rising temperatures causes more CO2.

Kind of like watching tree leaves sway in the wind and concluding swaying tree leaves causes winds.

Like the scientist trying to train spiders. Decides negative attention will get it to learn his commands, so he says 'Jump'. Spider refuses to jump.

So using negative attention, pulls off one leg, says JUMP,

no jump. So he pulls off another leg, says JUMP.

This goes on, pulling legs one by one.

When the spider has no more legs left, he reaches a grand conclusion:

Pulling legs off spiders causes them to go deaf.....

Originally posted by humy
There is good evidence that much of the cooling of the stratosphere is caused by the man made CFCs (which, incidentally, is further evidence, if any were needed, that man can effect climate). However, no-where near all of it can be explained by CFCs and the remaining cooling can only be explained by CO2.

Here is what science says:

http://www.realclimate.o ...[text shortened]... t showing the proof even though I have shown you the proof yet again? -you convince nobody here.

"There is good evidence that much of the cooling of the stratosphere is caused by the man made CFCs (which, incidentally, is further evidence, if any were needed, that man can effect climate). However, no-where near all of it can be explained by CFCs and the remaining cooling can only be explained by CO2."

CFCs are not CO2 so you are digressing into more nonsense. As you well know I have not ever denied man can affect climate. Why must I repeat "primary cause" so many damn times only for you to repeatedly ignore it? That is why you are the real idiot!

None of the things you listed prove CO2 is the cause of your latest theory of false assertions intended for the faith based crowd of left wing alarmists. Furthermore, you keep referring to global warming theory as if it is fact and that is completely stupid and you should know better. You do know how science works, right?

Since you are not capable of presenting proof and resort to theories and baseless predictions that people literally make up to dupe people like you into thinking theory is fact just give it up. Seriously, you are just embarrassing yourself ....again!

Originally posted by twhitehead
Because he believes he will have to pay carbon taxes if he admits to global warming. (plus its rather embarrassing to change you mind on this sort of thing).

As sonhouse pointed out, I have never denied global warming is real.

People like you are why skeptics have such an easy time convincing the fence sitters that alarmists are either dishonest or careless. It is probably both. After all, you cannot avoid false statements. You are your own worst enemy.

Originally posted by sonhouse
He has admitted global warming is real, just doesn't believe mankind is the main culprit, instead, natural cycles way overriding human efforts. He doesn't believe, for instance, that rising CO2 means rising temperatures, his cause and effect thing is backwards, he thinks rising temperatures causes more CO2.

Kind of like watching tree leaves sway in the w ...[text shortened]... egs left, he reaches a grand conclusion:

Pulling legs off spiders causes them to go deaf.....

"He doesn't believe, for instance, that rising CO2 means rising temperatures, his cause and effect thing is backwards, he thinks rising temperatures causes more CO2."

I have never said that I did not believe rising CO2 means rising temperatures. I did say that you and other alarmists over-estimate that rise in temperatures but that is completely different so your statement is false.......again!
Rising temperatures do cause more CO2 to leave the ocean into the atmosphere. It is a fact. See Henry's Law.

Since all three of you have made false statements about me I think it is obvious to other observers on this forum that none of you three have any credibility. I see no reason to waste my time with you three liars anymore. You have lost this debate.....again!

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"He doesn't believe, for instance, that rising CO2 means rising temperatures, his cause and effect thing is backwards, he thinks rising temperatures causes more CO2."

I have never said that I did not believe rising CO2 means rising temperatures. I did say that you and other alarmists over-estimate that rise in temperatures but that is completely diffe ...[text shortened]... ee no reason to waste my time with you three liars anymore. You have lost this debate.....again!

Rising temps does more than generate more CO2, and that is a positive feedback system but it also warms the arctic tundra which releases methane which has about 20 times the heating effect as CO2. That is potentially a worse problem than CO2 ever will be. That is a sleeping dragon. Talk about positive feedback, that is a scenario I don't want to contemplate.
Here is some evidence that is going to happen:

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-greenland-ice-loss-trillion-pounds.html


Ice loss in Greenland much worse than previously thought. You lose Ice you also start generating methane from warming tundra.

Regardless of whether people think humans are responsible or nature we can take measures to reduce the worse effects of coming climate change.

And this:

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-august-shatters-global-16th-month.html