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Science Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    07 Nov '17 12:16
    http://www.sciencealert.com/compound-explains-phosphorylation-mystery-abiogenesis-origins-life

    Getting closer, science maybe getting out of kindergarten in life origin questions.
  2. 07 Nov '17 13:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    http://www.sciencealert.com/compound-explains-phosphorylation-mystery-abiogenesis-origins-life

    Getting closer, science maybe getting out of kindergarten in life origin questions.
    yes, and it shows, as it strongly implies, one of the "ways non-living chemicals could potentially self-assemble into complex systems based on simple rules".
    Makes me wonder if, given the right conditions is abiogenesis almost inevitable!? If we ever find microbes on other planets unrelated to Earth life then that would be strong evidence for that if not proof.
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    07 Nov '17 14:26
    Originally posted by @humy
    yes, and it shows, as it strongly implies, one of the "ways non-living chemicals could potentially self-assemble into complex systems based on simple rules".
    Makes me wonder if, given the right conditions is abiogenesis almost inevitable!? If we ever find microbes on other planets unrelated to Earth life then that would be strong evidence for that if not proof.
    That would work for me! I dearly want to see if and when we find actual alien microbes or even macro stuff, what will the equivalent of our DNA be like. My suspicion is there is more than one way to scan a kit Our twisted ladder is not the only way to store genetic info, I'll bet. Could be a triangular twisted structure or a quad twisty thing, or something completely different, maybe a single long string coiled up like spaghetti.
  4. 12 Nov '17 14:14
    True believers trying to explain why it could happen yet still can't make it happen.

    We still have dancing pink elephants.
  5. 12 Nov '17 19:39
    Originally posted by @eladar
    True believers trying to explain why it could happen yet still can't make it happen.

    We still have dancing pink elephants.
    True believers trying to explain why Goddidit could happen yet still can't make it happen.

    We still have dancing gods and magic fairy dust.
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 Nov '17 00:44
    Originally posted by @eladar
    True believers trying to explain why it could happen yet still can't make it happen.

    We still have dancing pink elephants.
    You can't seem to understand that the science of life origins is in kindergarten still and will be for decades to come. But when they do figure it out, I want to see the egg on your face. Of course if and when that happens you would just move the goalpost somehow.
  7. 13 Nov '17 01:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    You can't seem to understand that the science of life origins is in kindergarten still and will be for decades to come. But when they do figure it out, I want to see the egg on your face. Of course if and when that happens you would just move the goalpost somehow.
    You have faith that they will figure it out?

    I thought you said you did not believe abiogenesis is true.

    Do you think they will figure out abiogenesis in your lifetime?
  8. 13 Nov '17 03:35
  9. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 Nov '17 16:12
    Originally posted by @eladar
    You have faith that they will figure it out?

    I thought you said you did not believe abiogenesis is true.

    Do you think they will figure out abiogenesis in your lifetime?
    Never said I didn't 'believe' in abio, I said we were waiting for viable evidence. Till then you can do your goddidit act all day long although it would have more street cred if you just admitted the universe came about 14 billion years ago and the solar system about 10 billion years later, our sun made from the death of way older stars pooping out heavier elements in a cloud that became our sun and the planets formed and life formed.

    At this point in time nobody would diss you for just believing goddidit to make the universe 14 billion years ago but 6000?
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    15 Nov '17 13:07
    Originally posted by @eladar
    We still have dancing pink elephants.
    That's bananas.
  11. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    18 Nov '17 09:25
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    http://www.sciencealert.com/compound-explains-phosphorylation-mystery-abiogenesis-origins-life

    Getting closer, science maybe getting out of kindergarten in life origin questions.
    One more piece of the puzzle:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42019778

    http://www2.ess.ucla.edu/~jewitt/papers/2017/JLR17.pdf

    There is evidence that the physical components of our solar system are similar to at least one other system not far from ours, and that ejecta can travel between solar systems. This lends credence to the claim that our solar system is not unique or in any way 'special.'
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    18 Nov '17 13:20
    Originally posted by @eladar
    You have faith that they will figure it out?

    I thought you said you did not believe abiogenesis is true.

    Do you think they will figure out abiogenesis in your lifetime?
    There you go again with the 'faith' bit, trying to foist off on us religious intent.

    We have confidence and here is the difference, you probably will come up with yet another religious apologist version of what you already have said, but here goes:

    Confidence is on a sliding scale. A doctor might say that patient has a 60/40 chance of living or he might say of another, he has a 30% chance of survival.

    A physicist would say we have pegged that phenomena down to 4 sigma or say 3 standard deviations, you no doubt know of the 68-95-99.7 rule, where one standard deviation is contained within 68 % of some population and 2 deviations at 95% and 3 deviations at 99.7%

    There is no 'faith' there. They say it right up front, we see this or that effect and have proven it to say 4 sigma is confidence to 99.993% or 5 sigma at 99.99994 %

    So show me where 'Faith' comes in there?

    We are confident but only to a certain point and that leaves the possibility we can be wrong by whatever is left over from the stated sigma level.

    We have confidence in the speed of light to way over 6 sigma but that does not mean we will eventually find a problem with that, and we already know time flow varies depending on the depth of a gravity field so light will be slower in a high gravity field than a low gravity field. We are confident we cannot go faster than the speed of light but that does not mean a thousand years from now given the advancement of science we have seen in the past 100 years, it might be shown we can get around it somehow. That is not faith me saying that it is just a low level of confidence something like that will happen. So show me where I have 'faith'.
  13. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    18 Nov '17 15:10
    Originally posted by @eladar
    True believers trying to explain why it could happen yet still can't make it happen.

    We still have dancing pink elephants.
    Until the creationist community provides a) evidence that complex organisms, such as giraffes, suddenly popped into existence fully-formed from nothing, and b) some even half-way plausible account how creation ex nihilo is compatible with natural laws, the Book of Genesis account of the origin of life remains on the book shelf right where it belongs, next to the Book of Mormon, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, Hesiod's Theogony, the Gilgamesh Epic, the Upanishads, etc. The fantasy schtick ('dancing pink elephants' and Great Big Tooth Fairies) is all on your side of the debate, not ours.