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  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    19 May '15 10:07
    http://phys.org/news/2015-05-vortex-bladeless-aims-lower-cost-energy.html
  2. 19 May '15 11:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://phys.org/news/2015-05-vortex-bladeless-aims-lower-cost-energy.html
    I think this would also remove the problem of wind farms screwing with our air traffic control
    and defence radar systems.
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    19 May '15 12:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I think this would also remove the problem of wind farms screwing with our air traffic control
    and defence radar systems.
    And birds not wanting to nest or travel near the blades of a traditional windmill.

    The surprising thing I saw in the video was the small actual amount of movement of the vibrating element. A traditional blade is doing a pretty fast degree per second clip.
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    19 May '15 17:44
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I think this would also remove the problem of wind farms screwing with our air traffic control
    and defence radar systems.
    Seriously?
  5. 19 May '15 21:33
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Seriously?
    Seriously.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/10828204/7m-wind-turbines-at-standstill-over-radar-fears.html

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/48437/5675-wind-turbine-study-raytheon-report.pdf

    http://www.aveillant.com/applications/windfarm-mitigation/

    https://www.qinetiq.com/services-products/maritime/research-systems/Documents/VERIFEYE-Mitigating-the-effects-of-wind-farms-on-radar.pdf
  6. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    20 May '15 00:06
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Seriously.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/10828204/7m-wind-turbines-at-standstill-over-radar-fears.html

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/48437/5675-wind-turbine-study-raytheon-report.pdf

    http://www.aveillant.com/applications/windfarm-mitigation/

    https://www.qinetiq.com/services- ...[text shortened]... s/maritime/research-systems/Documents/VERIFEYE-Mitigating-the-effects-of-wind-farms-on-radar.pdf
    Talk about the law of unintended consequences. Thanks for the links.
  7. 20 May '15 00:49
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Talk about the law of unintended consequences. Thanks for the links.
    No problem.
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    20 May '15 12:54
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Talk about the law of unintended consequences. Thanks for the links.
    The solution for the radar problem would be to stealth the turbine blades, like a rubberized RF absorbing layer, that would eliminate the blinking returns the airports are getting.
  9. 20 May '15 14:38
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The solution for the radar problem would be to stealth the turbine blades, like a rubberized RF absorbing layer, that would eliminate the blinking returns the airports are getting.
    Stealth coatings tend to be rather expensive and/or classified...

    At least ones that are light, hard-wearing, and thin enough to use on an aerodynamic surface.

    Might be better off just making the blades out of a radio transparent materiel that is still strong,
    light, and cheep enough.

    Although if this pans out, these blade-less generators look to be a better and cheaper alternative.
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    20 May '15 15:08
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Stealth coatings tend to be rather expensive and/or classified...

    At least ones that are light, hard-wearing, and thin enough to use on an aerodynamic surface.

    Might be better off just making the blades out of a radio transparent materiel that is still strong,
    light, and cheep enough.

    Although if this pans out, these blade-less generators look to be a better and cheaper alternative.
    I wonder if the new bladeless tech can be upgraded to industrial levels of power generation.
  11. 20 May '15 15:20
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I wonder if the new bladeless tech can be upgraded to industrial levels of power generation.
    I don't see any particular reason why not. It's what they said they were working on doing.

    The phenomena they are tapping into scales no problem.

    I don't see them running into an structural problems with modern lightweight composites.

    The only real question is whether their generator can cope with the much greater forces of a
    full scale [multi] megawatt generator reliably over the long term.

    I would assume the answer to that would be yes. We routinely make devices that take those
    kinds of loads, and this has very few moving parts to wear out.
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    20 May '15 16:14
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I don't see any particular reason why not. It's what they said they were working on doing.

    The phenomena they are tapping into scales no problem.

    I don't see them running into an structural problems with modern lightweight composites.

    The only real question is whether their generator can cope with the much greater forces of a
    full scale [multi ...[text shortened]... y make devices that take those
    kinds of loads, and this has very few moving parts to wear out.
    It seems clear there would be much less stress to local birds also.
  13. 20 May '15 16:29
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It seems clear there would be much less stress to local birds also.
    Indeed.

    The only downside thus far mentioned is individually the generators are less efficient
    than current turbines.

    However they are also much cheaper, and can be placed closer together.

    Meaning that the cost per GWhr should be lower, and the power per unit area should
    be higher for an array of these generators.