Originally posted by KazetNagorra I don't really see how this can be more efficient than simply running cars on batteries.
Probably not. However, hydrogen fuel cells have the distinct advantage that you can 'recharge' them in a couple of minutes at a filling station, wheras batteries take hours to recharge.
Originally posted by Penguin Probably not. However, hydrogen fuel cells have the distinct advantage that you can 'recharge' them in a couple of minutes at a filling station, wheras batteries take hours to recharge.
--- Penguin.
That's true, I suppose. Perhaps the future is in a hybrid of these two, where you can charge your car's batteries overnight, and only use hydrogen when necessary.
Originally posted by Penguin Probably not. However, hydrogen fuel cells have the distinct advantage that you can 'recharge' them in a couple of minutes at a filling station, wheras batteries take hours to recharge.
--- Penguin.
The obvious solution is to have swopable batteries.
Though in actual practice many people are perfectly capable of living with long recharge times. Many of the arguments against electric cars are little more than myths perpetuated by the oil and auto industries.
Originally posted by twhitehead The obvious solution is to have swopable batteries.
Though in actual practice many people are perfectly capable of living with long recharge times. Many of the arguments against electric cars are little more than myths perpetuated by the oil and auto industries.
When the weight of the battery is over 350lbs, having swappable batteries is hardly an option. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Battery
I find the implied claim that the auto industry is somehow campaigning against electric vehicles to be somewhat bogus -- it simply didn't make economic sense for them to produce electric vehicles a few years ago, and it's debatable even now.
Originally posted by forkedknight When the weight of the battery is over 350lbs, having swappable batteries is hardly an option. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Battery
I find the implied claim that the auto industry is somehow campaigning against electric vehicles to be somewhat bogus -- it simply didn't make economic sense for them to produce electric vehicles a few years ago, and it's debatable even now.
Or if you want a range of 221 miles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Battery_system
Originally posted by forkedknight I find the implied claim that the auto industry is somehow campaigning against electric vehicles to be somewhat bogus -- it simply didn't make economic sense for them to produce electric vehicles a few years ago, and it's debatable even now.
Have you watched the documentary "Who killed the electric car"? If you have and can dispute any of the claims I would be very interested.
It is my belief that it does make economic sense to make electric cars (and China it seems knows this and has started doing so). The auto industry and many others especially in the US have good reasons for not wanting electric cars in a hurry. I have noticed the Bush administration tried to push the 'hydrogen economy' with very poor justification and generally steer away from electric cars in general. I found it interesting that even Scientific American seemed to be pushing the idea whilst simultaneously admitting that there were no good reasons for it - I found that decidedly interesting and wonder who was behind it all.
Originally posted by forkedknight When the weight of the battery is over 350lbs, having swappable batteries is hardly an option. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Battery
I find the implied claim that the auto industry is somehow campaigning against electric vehicles to be somewhat bogus -- it simply didn't make economic sense for them to produce electric vehicles a few years ago, and it's debatable even now.
…When the weight of the battery is over 350lbs, having swappable batteries is hardly an option. ...…
Couldn’t a machine be designed to carry the large weight of the battery ( 350lbs+ ) and swap them over at the “refuelling” stations? (adapted petrol stations).
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton [b]…When the weight of the battery is over 350lbs, having swappable batteries is hardly an option. ...…
Couldn’t a machine be designed to carry the large weight of the battery ( 350lbs+ ) and swap them over at the “refuelling” stations? (adapted petrol stations).[/b]
Originally posted by KazetNagorra That seems awfully inefficient to me.
Inefficient? Why?
What is inefficient is the current practice of transporting vast amounts of fuel with tankers, putting it into underground tanks then pumping it up into cars. Raising 40l of fuel from an underground tank takes more energy than swapping batteries at the same height.
If you look on the net you will find that plans are already underway around the world for electric car charging stations and battery swop stations.
Has anyone seen or heard about progress in flywheel technology? Another form of battery really but with a spinning wheel inside a vacuum, spinning at 100,000 RPM or more, the more the merrier but don't know the latest in it, whether it exceeds the energy density of batteries yet. The nice thing is, it can take in energy and give it out like a battery and the flywheel itself is floating in a magnetic field so there are no bearings, nothing to wear out, only one moving part, energy in and out magnetically.
Originally posted by sonhouse Has anyone seen or heard about progress in flywheel technology? Another form of battery really but with a spinning wheel inside a vacuum, spinning at 100,000 RPM or more, the more the merrier but don't know the latest in it, whether it exceeds the energy density of batteries yet. The nice thing is, it can take in energy and give it out like a battery and th ...[text shortened]... ere are no bearings, nothing to wear out, only one moving part, energy in and out magnetically.
If it was workable I would expect it to be used in large installations long before it made its way into cars. It would probably have to do better than other methods such as pumping water up a hill then using it for hydro power or storing heat in liquid salt which is one proposal for storing power at solar power stations.
I think that to make a fly wheel run a car it would have to go a lot faster than 100 000 RPM. Does anyone know what sort of energy would be stored in a flywheel of a sub car mass running at 100,000RPM?
What mass fly wheel and what RPM would be required to store 10 % of the energy produced by a typical powerstation over 12 hours (so that it could be produced during off-peak then used during peak hours).
27 Jan '09 13:06
Major discovery: making H2 with no energy!
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