19 Aug '13 11:47>
http://scitechdaily.com/photons-traverse-optical-obstacles-as-both-a-wave-and-particle-simultaneously/
Originally posted by sonhouseThe thing is, photons are neither classical particles, nor classical waves. They show wave-like and particle-like behaviours. It is generally a mistake to take the analogies too far and demand that at some moments they are particles and other moments they are waves or sometimes both as the article suggests -they are, and always will be, neither.
http://scitechdaily.com/photons-traverse-optical-obstacles-as-both-a-wave-and-particle-simultaneously/
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhat about the wave function of the electron? I read somewhere that the electron wave function is what keeps them from crashing into the nucleus. I always wondered if this was a credible theory and I am still wondering.
The thing is, photons are neither classical particles, nor classical waves. They show wave-like and particle-like behaviours. It is generally a mistake to take the analogies too far and demand that at some moments they are particles and other moments they are waves or sometimes both as the article suggests -they are, and always will be, neither.
Waves ...[text shortened]...
Similarly, in quantum mechanics, the 'wave' is a pattern of behaviour rather than an entity.
Originally posted by Metal BrainAll quantum particles have wavelike and particle like behaviour. However they are neither waves, nor classical particles. They are quantum particles, which are something altogether different. You simply cannot try to visualize them as classical particles and expect to get it right.
What about the wave function of the electron? I read somewhere that the electron wave function is what keeps them from crashing into the nucleus. I always wondered if this was a credible theory and I am still wondering.
http://chemed.chem.wisc.edu/chempaths/GenChem-Textbook/The-Wave-Nature-of-the-Electron-559.html
You would think an electron (-) wo ...[text shortened]... of circle around it. Why does this happen? What is the force that keeps the space between them?
Originally posted by Metal BrainAn electron on top of the proton would have extremely high kinetic energy. You can solve the hydrogen atom (one proton + one electron) exactly, and the solution will give you the ground state (lowest energy state) of the electron. Usually when solving for the electron wave function, the proton is assumed to be stationary. The proton does, in fact, move about, but since it is so much heavier than the electron this gives only a minor correction to the electron wavefunction. Since the solution is exact, we are pretty sure about it and it can only be wrong if the underlying assumptions (that is, the axioms of quantum mechanics) are wrong.
What about the wave function of the electron? I read somewhere that the electron wave function is what keeps them from crashing into the nucleus. I always wondered if this was a credible theory and I am still wondering.
http://chemed.chem.wisc.edu/chempaths/GenChem-Textbook/The-Wave-Nature-of-the-Electron-559.html
You would think an electron (-) wo ...[text shortened]... of circle around it. Why does this happen? What is the force that keeps the space between them?
Originally posted by KazetNagorraDoes that mean then that if the electron decided to shift its personality from a wave to a particle it would crash into its parent proton?
An electron on top of the proton would have extremely high kinetic energy. You can solve the hydrogen atom (one proton + one electron) exactly, and the solution will give you the ground state (lowest energy state) of the electron. Usually when solving for the electron wave function, the proton is assumed to be stationary. The proton does, in fact, move ...[text shortened]... nly be wrong if the underlying assumptions (that is, the axioms of quantum mechanics) are wrong.
Originally posted by sonhouseI'm not sure what that question means - an electron can't decide to be a wave or particle, it's always just a "wavefunction." You can scatter electrons away from an atom though (e.g. ionize atoms by using light), I suppose that would be "particle-like" behaviour.
Does that mean then that if the electron decided to shift its personality from a wave to a particle it would crash into its parent proton?
Originally posted by KazetNagorraBut what keeps the electron away from the proton? They are always kept a considerable distance away from each other without touching even though they have opposite charges.
An electron on top of the proton would have extremely high kinetic energy. You can solve the hydrogen atom (one proton + one electron) exactly, and the solution will give you the ground state (lowest energy state) of the electron. Usually when solving for the electron wave function, the proton is assumed to be stationary. The proton does, in fact, move ...[text shortened]... nly be wrong if the underlying assumptions (that is, the axioms of quantum mechanics) are wrong.
Originally posted by Metal BrainGiven the Bohr radius is of the order of half an angstrom, how considerable a distance do you think a mile is?
But what keeps the electron away from the proton? They are always kept a considerable distance away from each other without touching even though they have opposite charges.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtI'm not sure I follow everything you stated. I don't understand all the terms you are using. Could you explain it to me like I am a child?
Given the Bohr radius is of the order of half an angstrom, how considerable a distance do you think a mile is?
The 1s orbital has a most probable separation of zero. Elementary particles do not "touch" each other and have separations like classical particles. They have wave-functions which can overlap. This means there is some probability of the el ings understandable but, as Kazet said, these analogies fail if you try to take them too far.
Originally posted by Metal Brain"Touching" is not so well-defined in this context (as mentioned by DeepThought).
But what keeps the electron away from the proton? They are always kept a considerable distance away from each other without touching even though they have opposite charges.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraSo the wavefunction does keep the electron away from the proton, right?
"Touching" is not so well-defined in this context (as mentioned by DeepThought).
Like I said, it's the kinetic energy which causes the electron to have a finite wavefunction amplitude "far" from the proton. If it was peaked sharply about the proton, the kinetic energy of the electron would be relatively high. There is a sort of "competition" (as phys ...[text shortened]... pecific position, the velocity is not so well-defined, i.e. you have high kinetic energy.
Originally posted by Metal BrainIf you cool down things, the "quantum size" actually becomes larger. This is why you get Bose-Einstein condensation below a certain temperature - the size of the constituent atoms becomes so large they they start to overlap and act as if they were just one giant "matter wave". (helium actually does not form a pure BEC at any temperature, although many alkali atoms do)
So the wavefunction does keep the electron away from the proton, right?
If a helium atom is cooled to nearly absolute zero does the electron slow down to lesson the wavefunction enough to allow for the electron to orbit the nucleus at a closer distance?
Would that explain why some of the atoms of a Bose-Einstein Condensate of helium can fit throug ...[text shortened]... o be pushed about by the cup's solid atoms and flow over the top of the cup overcoming gravity?
Originally posted by Metal Brain
So the wavefunction does keep the electron away from the proton, right?
If a helium atom is cooled to nearly absolute zero does the electron slow down to lesson the wavefunction enough to allow for the electron to orbit the nucleus at a closer distance?
Would that explain why some of the atoms of a Bose-Einstein Condensate of helium can fit throug ...[text shortened]... o be pushed about by the cup's solid atoms and flow over the top of the cup overcoming gravity?
So the wavefunction does keep the electron away from the proton, right?
If a helium atom is cooled to nearly absolute zero does the electron slow down to lesson the wavefunction enough to allow for the electron to orbit the nucleus at a closer distance?