@sonhouse saidThat was a lot of writing for not explaining why c is constant and can still have a Doppler effect. Why don't you just admit you do not know? Nothing you said explains why c is constant.
@Metal-Brain
Doppler shift works with audio as well and the speed of travel of sound in atmosphere at ground level is more or less constant. You should know the sound of a train whistle when it comes at you is a different pitch than when it is receding. THAT is doppler shift, a change in frequency of a wave from the same source not moving V a moving source, if the waves ar ...[text shortened]... yor belt doesn't give a rats ass about that, the conveyor belt says how fast the light waves travel.
Putting the word "relativistic" in front of the Doppler effect does not explain anything and neither are you. Why should I believe c is constant when there is a Doppler effect? Explain it to me as if I were a child. Use the Feynman Technique.
@Metal-Brain
Einstein had a thought experiment, suppose you have a dude inside a spaceship and he has a mirror on top of the ceiling and one on the floor. So he fires a light at the ceiling mirror, it is 100% reflective. So the dude in the spacecraft sees the light going up and down at the speed of light. At the same time, a second observer at rest is watching the light beam. Now because the spacecraft is moving, the actual path through space is not a simple up down motion, the stationary observer sees that the light is in fact moving in a saw blade pattern it is moving left and right depending on which way the vehicle is traveling compared to the stationary observer.
So the stationary observer sees what looks like the light slowing down, which what happens for real in a craft or anything with mass approaching c.
He sees the light going up at an angle, hitting the ceiling and coming back down at the same angle in a path looking like a sawtooth wave of electronics.
The faster the craft is going, the longer that light beam is taking to get the beam from down to up.
Anyway, the doppler shift is just a change in wavelength as you approach or recede from a light beam or a sound wave same effect.
Of course in a sound wave you could be in a mach 3 jet and it would outrun the sound so it wouldn't be heard at all but in space a craft cannot go faster than light so cannot out run it, all it sees is a longer and longer wavelength as it recedes from a source.
You must not have had even a high school physics class much less college.
I learned about that in the 8th grade (it was somewhat advanced, First Lutheran school in El Monte California) not a public school but still you must have missed a LOT of science classes. This is not rocket science. This is high school stuff.
@sonhouse saidThat was a lot of writing for not explaining why c is constant and can still have a Doppler effect. Why don't you just admit you do not know? Nothing you said explains why c is constant.
@Metal-Brain
Einstein had a thought experiment, suppose you have a dude inside a spaceship and he has a mirror on top of the ceiling and one on the floor. So he fires a light at the ceiling mirror, it is 100% reflective. So the dude in the spacecraft sees the light going up and down at the speed of light. At the same time, a second observer at rest is watching the light bea ...[text shortened]... u must have missed a LOT of science classes. This is not rocket science. This is high school stuff.
Putting the word "relativistic" in front of the Doppler effect does not explain anything and neither are you. Why should I believe c is constant when there is a Doppler effect? Explain it to me as if I were a child. Use the Feynman Technique.
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@metal-brain saidExplain to us exactly what contradiction you see in both c being constant and there being a Doppler effect. Until you tell us that, you aren't telling us what it is you want us to 'explain' and are just trolling pretending to have a point when you don't.
That was a lot of writing for not explaining why c is constant and can still have a Doppler effect.
If you cannot explain what you see as the contradiction between the two then that means there is no contradiction to explain and thus we have nothing to explain to you.
@sonhouse saidYou clearly do not understand and copy and pasted wikipedia crap to try and convince me you do. That is the same thing you did on the thread I created long ago.
@Metal-Brain
Let's clear up some basic terms. Tell me what 'wavelength' is.
If wikipedia explained it properly I would have no need to ask on here. All you did is explain the Doppler effect, not why a constant can have a Doppler effect. Sound has a Doppler effect because sound is not constant. How can a constant have a Doppler effect? If you do not know don't pretend you do.
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@metal-brain saidWikipedia does explain it properly and there is no need for a normal person to ask here. If you have insufficient intelligence to understand some pretty basic stuff what wikipedia says then that's not wikipedia's fault and it is impossible to explain it to you so you understand. So don't complain to us about it and stop asking.
If wikipedia explained it properly I would have no need to ask on here.
@humy saidAll you did is explain the Doppler effect, not why a constant can have a Doppler effect. Sound has a Doppler effect because sound is not constant. How can a constant have a Doppler effect? If you do not know don't pretend you do.
Wikipedia does explain it properly and there is no need for a normal person to ask here. If you have insufficient intelligence to understand some pretty basic stuff what wikipedia says then that's not wikipedia's fault and it is impossible to explain it to you so you understand. So don't complain to us about it and stop asking.
@metal-brain saidIt's the speed of light that is a constant, not its wavelength.
All you did is explain the Doppler effect, not why a constant can have a Doppler effect. Sound has a Doppler effect because sound is not constant. How can a constant have a Doppler effect? If you do not know don't pretend you do.
@deepthought saidIf that is true can you explain why a constant can have a different wavelength and frequency when approaching? Thus far, everybody has given me a very poor explanation that doesn't really explain anything. Even you just made an assertion that you expect me accept merely because you made the assertion. You didn't explain anything. You expect me to have faith that what you are saying is correct without explaining why.
It's the speed of light that is a constant, not its wavelength.
@metal-brain saidYour question is confused.
If that is true can you explain why a constant can have a different wavelength and frequency when approaching?
The "constant" here is the speed, not wavelength and frequency.
Therefore speed being constant doesn't imply wavelength and frequency constant.
@humy saidWhy? I'm not asking a complex question here. I don't think you realize why the frequency of sound changes when a train approaches. How can both a constant and a non constant have a different frequency when approaching?
Your question is confused.
The "constant" here is the speed, not wavelength and frequency.
Therefore speed being constant doesn't imply wavelength and frequency constant.
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@metal-brain saidI do "realize" why the frequency of sound changes when a train approaches.
I don't think you realize why the frequency of sound changes when a train approaches.
Light isn't sound.
Sound in air consists of vibration of the air. The air limits the speed of sound.
The speed of light isn't so limited like sound is because there is no corresponding ether of a kind that vibrates in a way that varies its relative speed like air does to sound. The Doppler effect of light has therefore subtly different albeit analogous causes to that of sound so that not exactly the same rules apply to both regarding speed.
@humy saidNo you don't. The frequency of sound changes because sound vibrating the air is not a constant, not despite that fact.
I do "realize" why the frequency of sound changes when a train approaches.
Light isn't sound.
Sound in air consists of vibration of the air. The air limits the speed of sound.
The speed of light isn't so limited like sound is because there is no corresponding ether of a kind that vibrates in a way that varies its relative speed like air does to sound. The Doppler effect of l ...[text shortened]... analogous causes to that of sound so that not exactly the same rules apply to both regarding speed.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/dopp.html
If you cannot understand why the frequency of sound changes you cannot possibly know how light does. Dude, you don't even understand the Doppler effect of sound. Learn that and get back to me.
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@metal-brain saidWhat are you talking about? That's a pretty vague and confused sounding assertion.
The frequency of sound changes because sound vibrating the air is not a constant,
What aspect of "sound vibrating the air" is "not a constant"? The speed of sound? If so, nobody here including I said/implied the contrary.
If not, exactly what are you referring to here if not the speed? Be specific.