Originally posted by DeepThoughtI think that everything is relative.
Well, yes, it floats in space, what's your point?
You could say that the earth is not spinning but everything is moving around the earth.
True formulas might now work but if we have no agreed upon center, how do we know we are the ones spinning?
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Originally posted by Eladar1, the Earth planet shape is slightly flattened due to rotation around its axis.
I think that everything is relative.
You could say that the earth is not spinning but everything is moving around the earth.
True formulas might now work but if we have no agreed upon center, how do we know we are the ones spinning?
2, if we were not spinning, then the stars must be spinning around the sky well over the speed of light.
3, Coriolis force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force
just 3 of the things that you would have to explain (with great difficulty) how they could apparently be if the Earth wasn't spinning.
Originally posted by EladarNo, spin isn't like velocity in that way. You can tell if you are spinning or not in a number of ways, c.f. the above discussion. You cannot tell if you are moving or not except relatively to other objects. Rotation is absolute in that sense.
I think that everything is relative.
You could say that the earth is not spinning but everything is moving around the earth.
True formulas might now work but if we have no agreed upon center, how do we know we are the ones spinning?
Originally posted by humy1. it could just naturally be flattened.
1, the Earth planet shape is slightly flattened due to rotation around its axis.
2, if we were not spinning, then the stars must be spinning around the sky well over the speed of light.
3, Coriolis force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force
just 3 of the things that you would have to explain (with great difficulty) how they could apparently be if the Earth wasn't spinning.
2. not if you believe the speed at which they are moving now is how fast they would be moving.
3.you could just assume that things just worked that way.
I am making the assumption that we do not have enough science to prove the world spins.
But if we are using todays science then of course number 3 is the easiest test. Flush a toilet and see what happens.
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Originally posted by EladarBack to the original comment of this discussion.
1. it could just naturally be flattened.
2. not if you believe the speed at which they are moving now is how fast they would be moving.
3.you could just assume that things just worked that way.
I am making the assumption that we do not have enough science to prove the world spins.
But if we are using todays science then of course number 3 is the easiest test. Flush a toilet and see what happens.
It isn't that it spins in something, but around something. That's what can be proven. In this case it has to do with earth's gravity and the effect the spin has on it. Or the effect that gravity has on something being spun.
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Originally posted by EladarNo, it couldn't if the Earth wasn't spinning. Not with the known laws of physics.
1. it could just naturally be flattened.
2. not if you believe the speed at which they are moving now is how fast they would be moving.
What does that mean? The stars would have to be moving over the speed of light if the Earth isn't spinning; there is no way around that. The only way you can explains how the Earth isn't spinning is to totally trash special relativity and say the stars are going WAY over c, which I cannot see how you can justify and explain given the huge evidence supporting special relativity.
3.you could just assume that things just worked that way.
No, you couldn't, at least not rationally. That would violate the known laws of physics that have been well tested and demonstrated to be so.
I am making the assumption that we do not have enough science to prove the world spins.
why make that assumption? We clearly do have enough science to prove the world spins.
But if we are using todays science then of course number 3 is the easiest test. Flush a toilet and see what happens.
Actually, it doesn't work so reliably on such a small scale as that due to local effects often swamping the Coriolis effect but, never mind.
I have observed water spinning down a plug hole clockwise on one occasion and anticlockwise on another and I have always been in the Northern hemisphere. There are far more reliable ways to observe the Coriolis effect both experimentally and within the weather.
Originally posted by EladarThe Coriolis effect isn't strong enough to affect the flush of a toilet. The rotationality of the vortex just depends on the shape of the toilet and how water enters the pan, it only has a measurable effect on large masses of air.
1. it could just naturally be flattened.
2. not if you believe the speed at which they are moving now is how fast they would be moving.
3.you could just assume that things just worked that way.
I am making the assumption that we do not have enough science to prove the world spins.
But if we are using todays science then of course number 3 is the easiest test. Flush a toilet and see what happens.
Ok., so we're assuming Dark Ages science. They presumably wouldn't know [1]. They would be aware to centrifugal force, so they'd have to explain why the stars don't all move outwards relative to the rotation axis of the night sky. I'm sure they would have found some sort of explanation. However, the Classical Greek philosophers managed to get as far as the world being a sphere, and although the Platonic school insisted on a Geocentric cosmology at least one of their contemporaries published a Heliocentric one with the then known planets in the right order. So the evidence seems to be that it is inferrable even without the benefits of Enlightenment thinking.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadYou do realize he is just taking devi's advocate, right? He doesn't really believe in the flat Earth at all. Just pulling your chain. Not so sure of Freaky, I think in that case it is his religion, literally. So nothing we would present in the way of evidence would convince him otherwise so he can keep his cherished belief's.
If you read the thread, you will find out that there is an easy test you can do for yourself.
Thinking about the pesky problem for flatasssers about the stars revolving around a non-spinning Earth, that must be why they posit the stars as being on a dome X amount of miles up in the air. I see these nonsense sites 'showing' how rockets are hitting the dome and such. That way they avoid the obvious question as to how the entire rest of the universe would have to be rotating faster than the speed of light.
So it turns out, if my arithmetic is right, the dome of impossibility would be about 80 odd billion km in diameter, anything bigger than that would have stuff rotating faster than the speed of light🙂 So that at least safely includes most of the solar system.......
Originally posted by sonhouseYou do realise that a stationary earth and a flat earth are not the same thing at all? I did mention it earlier in the thread, but you seem to have missed it. This thread isn't about whether or not the earth is flat. There are many other tests for that. This is about whether or not it spins.
You do realize he is just taking devi's advocate, right? He doesn't really believe in the flat Earth at all.
Originally posted by twhiteheadOk, my bad. Well then, wouldn't you be left with the problem that since we see stars and the sun and the moon all moving in certain well defined patterns in the sky, that, from my calculations, anything more than about 80 E9 Km away from Earth would be spinning at the speed of light and of course for the real far stuff, ludicrous speed....
You do realise that a stationary earth and a flat earth are not the same thing at all? I did mention it earlier in the thread, but you seem to have missed it. This thread isn't about whether or not the earth is flat. There are many other tests for that. This is about whether or not it spins.
How do they get around that one? Now they have to concoct an entire universe smaller than 80 billion Km radius?
Seems like a house of cards just as flimsy as a flat Earth, which also cannot spin in their mythology since centrifugal effects would be really noticeable the further you got from 'center' which I would assume to be the north pole.
They are all as wacky as a drunk skunk.