Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Science Forum

Science Forum

  1. 29 Nov '10 12:02
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/alike.htm
  2. 29 Nov '10 12:50
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/alike.htm
    Our friend robbie has gone Zen?

    The bottom line of his link is this: "And thus it's unlikely that any two complex snow crystals, out of all those made over the entire history of the planet, have ever looked completely alike"

    I would like to say the same thing about grains of sand: "And thus it's unlikely that any two grain of sand, out of all those over the entire history of the planet, have ever looked completely alike."

    Snow flakes are pretty, grains of sand are not. This doesn't make grains of sand less zen than snow flakes.
  3. 29 Nov '10 13:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Our friend robbie has gone Zen?

    The bottom line of his link is this: "And thus it's unlikely that any two complex snow crystals, out of all those made over the entire history of the planet, have ever looked completely alike"

    I would like to say the same thing about grains of sand: "And thus it's unlikely that any two grain of sand, out of all tho etty, grains of sand are not. This doesn't make grains of sand less zen than snow flakes.
    our friend? thanks Judas! but no thanks, you stabbed me in the back enough times thank you very much, if you appreciated the snowflakes then that is all and well and good, i remain committed from refraining to enter into any type of discussion with you given your track record of betrayal!
  4. 29 Nov '10 13:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    our friend? thanks Judas! but no thanks, you stabbed me in the back enough times thank you very much, if you appreciated the snowflakes then that is all and well and good, i remain reluctant to enter into any discussion with you given your track record of betrayal!
    This is a whole new thread, robbie. We always start from scratch at every new thread. Remember the words of Jesus: "Thou shalt forgive your enemies".

    By the way, I took a long zen reading in the link of yours. Interesting stuff, robbie, I thank you for the link! Incredibly interesting!
  5. 29 Nov '10 14:11
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    This is a whole new thread, robbie. We always start from scratch at every new thread. Remember the words of Jesus: "Thou shalt forgive your enemies".

    By the way, I took a long zen reading in the link of yours. Interesting stuff, robbie, I thank you for the link! Incredibly interesting!
    ok, i guess even the fallen heroes of Valhalla awake afresh each morning to be attended upon by pretty maidens, to drink the mead of poetry and to battle afresh each day, so be it!

    I am genuinely glad you enjoyed the site Fabian, they fascinate me no end also, the Zen aspect is interesting, although the science of the thing more so. There have been of course various attempts to marry science and metaphysics, as in Shiva the destroyer and Cern etc.
  6. 29 Nov '10 14:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ok, i guess even the fallen heroes of Valhalla awake afresh each morning to be attended upon by pretty maidens, to drink the mead of poetry and to battle afresh each day, so be it!

    I am genuinely glad you enjoyed the site Fabian, they fascinate me no end also, the Zen aspect is interesting, although the science of the thing more so. There have ...[text shortened]... ourse various attempts to marry science and metaphysics, as in Shiva the destroyer and Cern etc.
    One thing I learnt was the fact that each arm in the same flake isn't as the others, not even each arm isn't symmetric in itself. Without thinking I thought that it was a true six-fold symmetry on each flake, but I was wrong. When I think about it the non-symmetry is natural as it should be by the laws of physics.

    Did you see the movies how a flake evolve? Truly fascinating!
  7. 29 Nov '10 14:40
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    One thing I learnt was the fact that each arm in the same flake isn't as the others, not even each arm isn't symmetric in itself. Without thinking I thought that it was a true six-fold symmetry on each flake, but I was wrong. When I think about it the non-symmetry is natural as it should be by the laws of physics.

    Did you see the movies how a flake evolve? Truly fascinating!
    yes it was awesome, i am trying to wade my way through the chaps paper on the formation of ice crystals, it seems that there are just so many factors involved, as he mentions, humidity, the surface tension of the ice, condensation on the surface from surrounding water vapour etc, its just too much, i don't think i fully understand what he is saying and my mind keeps telling me, just go back to the pictures robbie, its the best thing for you!

    It seems that at its very very basic level, it should form a hexagonal shape from the correlation of hydrogen and oxygen atoms, even he himself admits that there is a certain mystery surrounding the dynamics of the process. It seems to me there are so many variables working on so many platforms with so many different outcomes, yes Fabian we agree, tis truly fascinating.
  8. 29 Nov '10 15:03
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    It seems to me there are so many variables working on so many platforms with so many different outcomes, yes Fabian we agree, tis truly fascinating.
    It is, isn't it?
  9. 03 Dec '10 01:26
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/alike.htm
    Thanks Robbie.

    Even the sameness of an electron, mentioned by the author, is at least questionable. Below is a quote I pasted in the Holographic post, which seems to support (still) in current quantum physics work the notion that an electron is unable to be ultimately defined. How can one say therefore they are the same?

    It also talks of atoms consisting of "an assembly of particles enabling internal degrees of freedom." Freedom doesn't sound too fixed and "same" either.

    Sameness is boring, diversity is endlessly interesting. Ain't it wonderful!
    >>>
    "Researchers have shown in the last few years that for photons and atoms - and now, electrons - "both/and" and "either/or" exist side-by-side. In other words, there is a grey zone of complementarity. There are hence experimentally demonstrable conditions where matter appears to be both a wave and a particle. These situations can be described by a so called duality relation. It can be viewed as an extended Complementarity Principle for quantum physics; which should be more precisely called a Co-existence Principle. It states that manifestations of matter which would normally be mutually exclusive - e.g., local and non-local, coherent and non-coherent - are indeed measurable and make themselves evident, in a particular "transition regime". One can speak of partial localisation and partial coherence, or partial visibility and partial distinguishability. These are measurements that are connected to each other via the duality relation. In this transition regime the Complementarity Principle, and the complementary dualism should be extended to the more general Co-existence Principle, describing the parallel dualism of nature. Nature has thus a more ambivalent character than previously recognized. Atomic interferometry provides us with examples of this ambivalence. It was first found in 1998 in atoms, (5) which consist of an assembly of particles enabling internal degrees of freedom."

    http://hasylab.desy.de/news__events/research_highlights/archive/molecular_double_slit_experiment/index_eng.html
  10. 04 Dec '10 22:14
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Thanks Robbie.

    Even the sameness of an electron, mentioned by the author, is at least questionable. Below is a quote I pasted in the Holographic post, which seems to support (still) in current quantum physics work the notion that an electron is unable to be ultimately defined. How can one say therefore they are the same?

    It also talks of atoms consist ...[text shortened]... events/research_highlights/archive/molecular_double_slit_experiment/index_eng.html
    hi, you are most welcome, although i do not purport to understand everything you cited, although if it was of interest, then tis enough for me