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Science Forum

  1. Standard member moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    05 Jun '17 19:41
    ... conspiracy theories are all wrong, for example that NASA has been concealing that Earth is flat -- is not so much that the conspiracy theories don't fit the evidence, but rather that they give too much credence to human ability to conceal massive duplicity. I doubt that NASA is capable of maintaining such a grand deception for 50 years. Just look at the CIA/NSA: arguably the tightest security organization in the world, and yet along comes Eddy Snowden and blows the whistle on them, big time, uploading thousands of documents to the world's press about the internal workings of the organization. If NASA were concealing some great big secret, such as that the Earth is really flat, somebody would have exposed it by now. There would have been a NASA-Snowden by now, and Congress would be hopping mad that they financed a moonshot that never really happened.
  2. 05 Jun '17 19:54 / 7 edits
    one problem with the Moon landings conspiracy theory is that such a conspiracy would be SO hard and expensive to convincingly make and maintain that it would probably actually be easier and cheaper just to send people up to the Moon for real! So, given that being the case, unless they are completely stupid (in which case they would probably fail to make the conspiracy convincing), what possible motive would there be for them to make such a conspiracy? -they would be just making their lives vary hard for themselves for nothing!

    Actually, now I think about it, the same applies to the global-warming-is-faked conspiracy theory; -just think of all the data showing global warming that would have to be all faked and then make sure all the vast number of opposing parties and people with conflicting interests keep their mouths shut about it! Exactly how would they stop vast numbers of them blowing the whistle? Threaten them with death if they do that? And exactly how would that be 'arranged' and by who or which governments? And what would the governments get from it as 'benefit' thus acting as the motive for doing this?
  3. 05 Jun '17 20:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moonbus
    Just look at the CIA/NSA: arguably the tightest security organization in the world,....
    You would loose that argument.

    In general, the larger an organisation the harder it is to maintain security. Those are pretty large organisations. But even relative to their size, I am not aware of any good reason to believe their security is any better than the security organisations of any number of governments. And that's before we take into account the fact that their fame makes them a target. I doubt that or Russia China would waste their time hacking into the Venezuelan security agencies computers.

    Even language and ethnicity are against them. To infiltrate certain countries you need spies that have the exact right ethnicity and who were brought up speaking the language.
  4. 07 Jun '17 08:05
    Conspiracy theories are just made up by governments to hide the real truths from the people!
    That's what I think!
  5. 07 Jun '17 08:30
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Conspiracy theories are just made up by governments to hide the real truths from the people!
    That's what I think!
    If Trump is to be believed, then conspiracy theories are made up by the the Chinese to hide the real truth from the US government.

    Given that governments generally are not that great at planning and organisation, my bet is that they are the ones fooled by conspiracy theories, not the creators of them.
  6. 07 Jun '17 08:40
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    If Trump is to be believed, then conspiracy theories are made up by the the Chinese to hide the real truth from the US government.

    Given that governments generally are not that great at planning and organisation, my bet is that they are the ones fooled by conspiracy theories, not the creators of them.
    ... and that is what they want *you* to believe ...

    ... on the other hand ...
  7. 07 Jun '17 08:56
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    ... and that is what they want *you* to believe ...
    Luckily for me, I generally do not take too much on authority.
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    07 Jun '17 11:50
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Luckily for me, I generally do not take too much on authority.
    I think organizations like the flat Earth society with members in the thousands maybe, 90% of them don't really think Earth is flat, they are just in it for the socialization, poor saps with nowhere else to go. But then there are like the biblical literalists which started in the 19th century, before that time most people took tales like the biblical flood as allegory but the literalists took over and now literally millions of people are solidly convinced there was an actual world wide flood.

    I think it is the same with organizations like the flat Earth society. People like the Freak are literalists while the majority take all of it with a grain of salt because they just don't have much in the way of socialization ability so choose the first one that they stumble on.
  9. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    17 Jun '17 03:17
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    [b]You would loose that argument.

    In general, the larger an organisation the harder it is to maintain security...
    And the harder to maintain a conspiracy.

    Brutus the bouncer is like they ain't no whores here.
  10. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    17 Jun '17 04:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moonbus
    ... conspiracy theories are all wrong, for example that NASA has been concealing that Earth is flat -- is not so much that the conspiracy theories don't fit the evidence, but rather that they give too much credence to human ability to conceal massive duplicity. I doubt that NASA is capable of maintaining such a grand deception for 50 years. Just look at the ...[text shortened]... now, and Congress would be hopping mad that they financed a moonshot that never really happened.
    The thing is they've done some pretty peculiar things in their time, look up MKUltra on Wikipedia. There have been conspiracies, just generally not on the grand scale the 9/11 or NASA conspiracy theories need. Typically it's something like a shoot-to-kill policy.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra