@twhitehead: On the orthogonality of information

Originally posted by Palynka
Ok, I'll try again later on... I'm feeling lazy these days.

You lazy

you stay in bed😵

Originally posted by Palynka
Ok, I'll try again later on... I'm feeling lazy these days.

Actually, the ball is in tw's court at the moment -- he has yet to furnish a definition of information.

Incidentally, is the idea of information orthogonal to information itself?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Actually, the ball is in tw's court at the moment -- he has yet to furnish a definition of information.

Incidentally, is the idea of information orthogonal to information itself?

To be honest I have been lazier than Palynka and have not even finished reading the Wikipedia articles he started out with.
For now, let me just summarize my understanding as it is now:
1. The physical parts of the universe (matter and energy) all have co-ordinates in space time. (just how exact they are and the implications of quantum mechanics I won't go into).
2. Those co-ordinates when looked at relatively combined with other properties of matter such as weight velocity etc form patterns.
3. Those patterns may be mapped to other patterns.
4. The mapping, or whatever is common between two patterns, seems to me to be totally independent of any given point in spacetime and of the particular instances being mapped. I don't know whether to call these mappings information, logic, patterns or some other word.
5. I still need to think about whether such patterns occur which are not independent of spacetime but are instead independent of some other property - ie maybe my choice of spacetime is arbitrary.

Originally posted by twhitehead
To be honest I have been lazier than Palynka and have not even finished reading the Wikipedia articles he started out with.
For now, let me just summarize my understanding as it is now:
1. The physical parts of the universe (matter and energy) all have co-ordinates in space time. (just how exact they are and the implications of quantum mechanics I won't ...[text shortened]... are instead independent of some other property - ie maybe my choice of spacetime is arbitrary.

OK🙂

It seems to me that you get a grip on Einsteins' opinion about the elements of reality, ie that, since such a certain element is in correspondence with a measured physical quantity, then the conclusion is that information is orthogonal.

However if we define an element of reality as any exchangeable and finite packet of physical information, methinks the given pieces of information cannot have inherent existence because it 's impossible to find two identical observers😵

Originally posted by twhitehead
Lets say the sequence AACCGGTT occurs in my DNA. Would you say that that information never existed before life began?

Yes, or you could say it was part of a bigger chunk of information in the singularity if you tie the information to inverse entropy.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Yes, or you could say it was part of a bigger chunk of information in the singularity if you tie the information to inverse entropy.

That information never existed before life begun because it did not existed as a standing alone existence; it exists merely as a part of a specific DNA -it is a frame of the unique "movie" known as "twhiteheads' DNA". This specific DNA exists solely once and solely as a part of the observer "twhitehead"
😵

Originally posted by twhitehead

4. The mapping, or whatever is common between two patterns, seems to me to be totally independent of any given point in spacetime and of the particular instances being mapped. I don't know whether to call these mappings information, logic, patterns or some other word.
5. I still need to think about whether such patterns occur which are not independent ...[text shortened]... are instead independent of some other property - ie maybe my choice of spacetime is arbitrary.

Let's hear when you've done some thinking.

In the meantime, is it accurate to say that events can be plotted, assigned coordinates, in spacetime? Prior to Einstein, objects could be mapped, plotted, in space and time, but things are viewed differently now, aren't they? (Even before Einstein I would still disagree with you, but maybe this can move things along.)