A Very Wise Man Once Said...

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have been thinking about this thread, and I am wondering why you think that the title is still valid. You, as a Christian claim to be comforted by knowledge of God. Does this not contradict you quote? Why are you saddened by greater knowledge?

I already explained. Though the greater the knowledge, the greater the sadness in all of us, Christians like me--especially when compared to Atheists--are least affected by it. We rejoice in what we learn spiritually. We are dismayed when we see the horrors of everyday life in the flesh; in this World. Christians are not of this World. But that doesn't keep us from being sickened by it.

Originally posted by LemonJello
The greater the knowledge, the greater the sadness.

I think it is somewhat bizarre that you would read 'wisdom' into this: it is just a rather vacuous catch-phrase that serves as proxy for one’s projecting his own feelings of misology and casting them into universals about the human condition.

Certainly the more we learn, the more we rea pect be in the same boat – the boat to which you presume to stick your nose up to.

The wisest human being that ever lived said what I wrote. I came across it reading the bible and decided to start a thread on it.

The reason I did is because I have argued with others before. I argued the same point - the greater the knowledge, the greater the sorrow. Others argued against me. So when I came across it in the bible, and saw that the wisest of wise wrote it, I felt vindicated by it.

Hence the thread.

bbarr saw right through it. Good on ya bbarr.

Originally posted by sumydid
The wisest human being that ever lived said what I wrote. I came across it reading the bible and decided to start a thread on it.

The reason I did is because I have argued with others before. I argued the same point - the greater the knowledge, the greater the sorrow. Others argued against me. So when I came across it in the bible, and saw that the wi ...[text shortened]... I felt vindicated by it.

Hence the thread.

bbarr saw right through it. Good on ya bbarr.

Yes, I am aware of the source. Ecclesiastes, right? I have already discussed these passages on these boards several times (mostly with KellyJay as I recall).

You didn't actually address any of my points...

Originally posted by rwingett
You assume that if there is a god that he will be as you imagine him. It's possible that there is a god, but he bears no relation to your conception of him.

Any true conception of God can only be based on what God reveals about Himself.

Anything else is an illusion.

Originally posted by LemonJello
Yes, I am aware of the source. Ecclesiastes, right? I have already discussed these passages on these boards several times (mostly with KellyJay as I recall).

You didn't actually address any of my points...

Ok. Well your first point is that you think it's bizarre that I would read any wisdom into this catch phrase.

At the time you clearly didn't connect the dots because if you did, you wouldn't have presumed to call the words a simple "catch phrase," and you would have understood that Solomon, being the wisest mortal in all the bible, said it and therefore to a Christian like me, it obviously contains wisdom. So in fact I did address this point by demonstrating that it was Solomon who recorded the "catch phrase" in the bible, thus making it obvious that as far as Christians like me are concerned, God's wisdom is there (by way of Solomon).

Your 2nd point was that I presume to stick my nose up into some boat... I didn't understand what you meant, therefore I couldn't address it.

Did I miss anything?

Originally posted by sumydid
The greater the knowledge, the greater the sadness.

Does anyone disagree?

I think it's true on a certain level for all people. But I would argue that it's the Atheist that this is most true for.

Certainly the more we learn, the more we realize what a dreadful, toilsome, hollow, existence we have on this sewer of a planet. And in the end we die--an ...[text shortened]... reveal that everything they are doing is... for nothing. Just killing time.

Thoughts?

I disagree fully.

This post smacks more of a single categorisation of non-God believers than all of the different God-believing religions put together, and begins with untrue assumptions to suck in every Christian into not permitting diversification of the differing atheistic thoughts.

You start with "it's the Atheist that this is most true for." What and which version of atheist would that be?

You then sublimely and, unwittingly to some, attach "Certainly the more we learn, the more we realize what a dreadful, toilsome, hollow, existence we have on this sewer of a planet. And in the end we die--and our best hope is to die quickly and painlessly." and associate it to you previous comment, as if it is subconciously associated to atheists.

You then make another blind assumption in "for the Atheists, this life is all we've got."You obviously have no knowledge of Buddhism whatsoever, and actually insult it irresponsibly in continuing with "However, since the increase in knowledge makes the Atheist more aware of how dreadful and pointless life is, I am certain that--if not on a subconcious level--the goal would be to stay as blissfully ignorant as possible. "

I think you would find, indeed, that Buddhists have a full life, don't consider life to be one of ignorance, and we certainly don't turn the volume up contrary to Christian beliefs you write about!

We party in self-improvement, and the ability to help others. I have never seen a single post of yours which entertains the idea of nothing other than but the helping of yourself.

___________________________

Those who mistake the unessential to be essential and the essential to be unessential, dwelling in wrong thoughts, never arrive at the essential.

Those who know the essential to be essential and the unessential to be unessential, dwelling in right thoughts, do arrive at the essential.

Just as rain breaks through an ill-thatched house, so passion penetrates an undeveloped mind.

Just as rain does not break through a well-thatched house, so passion never penetrates a well-developed mind.

Buddha.

____________________________

-m.

You disagree with the word of God. I didn't necessarily think of Buddhists in my Atheists categorization. I was thinking more of the Atheist who has no belief in the afterlife or supernatural.

Buddhists are Atheists?

Learn somethin' new every day! Thank you sir!

Originally posted by sumydid
Ok. Well your first point is that you think it's bizarre that I would read any wisdom into this catch phrase.

At the time you clearly didn't connect the dots because if you did, you wouldn't have presumed to call the words a simple "catch phrase," and you would have understood that Solomon, being the wisest mortal in all the bible, said it and therefore ...[text shortened]... 't understand what you meant, therefore I couldn't address it.

Did I miss anything?

You say it contains wisdom because it was uttered by a wise man. That is in context just circular. So, no, you have not addressed the first point. What does the phrase actually assert and what are some reasons why I should think it speaks to the subject of wisdom?

You neglected to address the other points as well...

I didn't understand what you meant

Which parts would you like me to clarify?

Originally posted by sumydid
The wisest human being that ever lived said what I wrote. I came across it reading the bible and decided to start a thread on it.

I see. So you are in a position where you have to support the saying whether it makes sense or not because your religion requires you to.

Originally posted by sumydid
The greater the knowledge, the greater the sadness.

Does anyone disagree?

I think it's true on a certain level for all people. But I would argue that it's the Atheist that this is most true for.

Certainly the more we learn, the more we realize what a dreadful, toilsome, hollow, existence we have on this sewer of a planet. And in the end we die--an ...[text shortened]... reveal that everything they are doing is... for nothing. Just killing time.

Thoughts?

I disagree. In my experience, the more I have learned, the less I realise that I know. The position of being aware of not knowing provides the opportunity for maximal appreciation of our "dreadful, toilsome, hollow, existence... ...on this sewer of a planet". One is liberated from the restrictions and contradictions of man-made religions and free to pursue happiness by whatever path one finds oneself drawn to, and yet no matter how grim one's perception of life might become, there is always the possibility of purpose or underlying meaning, always the opportunity to better oneself and to improve ones lot and the lot of those around one.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
The greater the knowledge of absolute truth, the keener the awareness of the necessity of making pivotal life or death choices and the greater the internal pressure to make them correctly. Life on earth is no longer an 'Eat, drink and be merry' game of mindless diversions and distractions designed to blur the unsettling realization that our souls are im of this bothersome concept. Paul was initially blinded by it on the road to Damascus.

gb

Bump page one for comment.

"The greater the knowledge of absolute truth, the keener the awareness of the necessity of making pivotal life or death choices and the greater the internal pressure to make them correctly. Life on earth is no longer an 'Eat, drink and be merry' game of mindless diversions and distractions designed to blur the unsettling realization that our souls are immortal and will live at one of two addresses for all eternity. Wallowing in ignorance, buying into the old lie that ignorance is bliss, is no longer on the table as a live option. Crux issue doesn't concern the accumulation of academic information or esoteric speculations. It does concern moving out of darkness into light. Plato's Cave provides a glimpse of this bothersome concept. Paul was initially blinded by it on the road to Damascus."

gb

Originally posted by sumydid
The greater the knowledge, the greater the sadness.

Does anyone disagree?

I think it's true on a certain level for all people. But I would argue that it's the Atheist that this is most true for.

Certainly the more we learn, the more we realize what a dreadful, toilsome, hollow, existence we have on this sewer of a planet. And in the end we die--an ...[text shortened]... reveal that everything they are doing is... for nothing. Just killing time.

Thoughts?

For a person who has known, there is no sadness nor joy. Buddha had gone "there" and came back to enlighten other humans. He was known as the " Tathagata " or the person who has been there and has come back. So the only emotion that Buddha might be said to have showed was Compassion for fellow humans not sadness.
Nor in Hinduism the Liberated Soul has any sadness or any joy. Such a person is called a " Sthitapradnya " or the one whose intellect has stabilized or the one in whose mind there are no movements or " Vritti s ".

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
For a person who has known, there is no sadness nor joy. Buddha had gone "there" and came back to enlighten other humans. He was known as the " Tathagata " or the person who has been there and has come back. So the only emotion that Buddha might be said to have showed was Compassion for fellow humans not sadness.
Nor in Hinduism the Liberated Soul has ...[text shortened]... tellect has stabilized or the one in whose mind there are no movements or " Vritti s ".

Well that's great.

On the other hand, God and Christ have demonstrated the full gamut of emotions. Does that make you feel like they are inferior? Serious question.

Originally posted by sumydid
Well that's great.

On the other hand, God and Christ have demonstrated the full gamut of emotions. Does that make you feel like they are inferior? Serious question.

not at all.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
not at all.

Further to my post above. Emotions like sadness or joy or compassion are human attributes. Or attributes of incarnations of God like Jesus, Buddha, Lord Rama or Lord Krishna. But emotions of God ?