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  1. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    15 Feb '13 13:36 / 1 edit
    I know this is a long and it's not my normal approach to copy past stuff from the net, but this letter makes some interesting scripturally back points and I wondered if robbies carrobie and Galveston cared to read it and comment.

    [An open letter to my Jehovah's Witness friends: from Bobby Richardson.]

    As a non-denominational layman, my approach to Bible study is independent.
    I do not utilize any religious organization's material. Instead, I use the King James Version of the Bible, a good dictionary and a concordance. However, I have studied many different doctrines with a number of different people from a number of different faiths. Some years back I had the opportunity to study with a Jehovah Witness elder. We had a very comprehensive study which, for the most part, was "open" and Independent. Neither he nor I believed the doctrine of Rome that emerged in 325 A.D., known as the trinity. This gave us some common ground to build on. Even though there were areas that he and I were in agreement, there were others where we were very far apart. In addition, he either would not, or could not, answer some very important questions. We became friends, parted as friends, and remain friends today as far as I am concerned.

    My decision to remain an independent Non-Denominational Bible student/layman instead of becoming a Jehovah’s Witness had nothing to do with this elder personally. He was a kind and considerate man, who very deeply believed the doctrine which had been taught to him. But, I too, very deeply believed what God has revealed to me from His Word through very diligent study and prayer.

    It is my understanding the Watchtower Society discourages members from participating in "open" Bible studies or reading "other" material which is not published or approved by them. However, I would like for you to hear me out and explain some things to me. I Peter 3:15 does instruct us to be able to give an answer to them that ask us.

    When Jehovah Witnesses knock on my door, they are not treated with disrespect or contempt. If I have time to discuss the Bible, and perceive that they are willing to have an "open discussion", I will invite them in. Otherwise, we part on friendly terms. I have the Watchtower's 1970 and 1984 revisions of the Bible, a 1959 Interlinear Translation of the New Testament and other literature.

    I was raised a Protestant Trinitarian, but my belief system dramatically changed when I began to "openly" study (and search) the scriptures. God revealed the Apostles Monotheistic doctrine to me as I independently studied the Bible. The Apostles doctrine was set forth by Jesus Christ, who commissioned HIS Witnesses to take it to the world. Jesus (who doesn’t lie) specifically promised Peter that he (Peter) would receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven, at some point.

    According to Matt. 28:19 Witnesses were to ... Go therefore and make disciples of people of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, AND of the Son AND of the holy spirit.

    These witnesses went forth baptizing converts in the NAME of JESUS as recorded in the history book of Witnesses, Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48 and 19:5 as documented in the 1970 Revision of the New World Translation. WHY DID THEY? WHO DOES THIS TODAY?

    That gets me to the purpose of my "open letter" to Jehovah Witnesses. In my non-denominational lay work I often correspond with people who have different religious beliefs. My practice is to correspond with each of them individually. However, it occurred to me that it would make more sense to prepare an "open letter" to be used when corresponding with any Jehovah's Witness friend.

    It is a dangerous thing to add to or take from the Word of God. Instead the Word of God -is to be rightly divided, line upon line, precept upon precept. It is of no private Interpretation. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God. It is our weapon against the adversary. When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus used the Sword of the Spirit against him. Paul gave a solemn warning that if anyone, including an angel, preached another message than that which the Apostles preached, they were accursed. The Word of God is to be a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. We are to esteem it more than necessary food, and are to hid it in our hearts, lest we sin against God. The Word of God is forever settled in Heaven, and it is sharper than any two edged sword. We will be judged by the Word of God, so I have learned to make sure my beliefs are grounded in the Word of God.

    I trust that we share mutual respect for the Word of God, as well as for one another from this point forward. My purpose isn't to criticize or condemn "the people" who are Jehovah's Witnesses. It is an appeal from a serious Bible student for Scriptural reconciliation of some things that I do not understand about Jehovah Witness doctrine.




    (1970 New World Translation)
    Isaiah 44:24 "This is what Jehovah has said, your Re-purchaser and the Former of you from the belly: 'I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me'?"

    Isaiah 43:3 "For I am Jehovah your God, the Holy One of Israel your saviour."
    Isaiah 43:11 "l-l am Jehovah, and besides me there is no saviour".
    Isaiah 43:15 "I am Jehovah your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King ".
    Isaiah 44:6 "... I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God... "
    Isaiah 45:21 "...Is it not I, Jehovah, besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Saviour, there being none excepting me?"
    Isaiah 49:26 "...I, Jehovah, am your Saviour and your Repurchaser, the Powerful One of Jacob".
    Isaiah 42:8 "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images".
    Isaiah 48:11-13 "For my own sake, for my own sake I shall act, for how could one let oneself be profaned? And to no one else shall I give my own glory. 'Listen to me, 0 Jacob, and you Israel my called one. I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last. Moreover, my own hand laid the foundation of the earth'...".
    Isaiah 40:5 "And the glory of Jehovah will certainly be revealed, and all flesh must see [it] together for the very mouth of Jehovah has spoken [it]."

    Isaiah 53:1-5 ".. And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed? And he will come up like a twig before one, and like a root out of waterless land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; and when we shall see him, there is not the appearance so that we should desire him. He was despised and was avoided by men, a man meant for pains and for having acquaintance with sickness. And there was as if a concealing of one's face from us. He was despised, and we held him as no account. Truly our sicknesses were what he himself carried; and as for our pains, he bore them. But we ourselves accounted him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors. The chastisement meant for our peace was upon him, and because of his wounds there has been a healing for us.

    Micah 1:2-3 "Hear, 0 you peoples, all of you; pay attention, 0 earth and what fills you, and let the Lord Jehovah serve against you as a witness, Jehovah from his holy temple. For, look! Jehovah is going forth from his place, and he will certainly come down and tread upon earth's high places.


    (1970 New World Translation)
    Matthew 1:20-23 "...Jehovah's angel appeared to him in a dream, saying: 'Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife home, for that which has been begotten In her is by holy spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you must call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. All this actually came about for that to be fulfilled which was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet, saying: 'Look The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Immanuel,' which means, when translated, 'With Us Is God"'.

    Luke 2:10-11 "But the angel said to them: Have no fear, for, look! I am declaring to you good news of a great joy that all the people will have, because there was born to you today a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord, In David's city."

    Isaiah 9:6-7 "For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this."

    My studies have involved some very time consuming research on many different subjects. Here's some places in the Watch Tower's 1959 Interlinear Translation of the New Testament where I found a Greek word that were translated Jehovah in some places, but was translated Lord (Jesus) in others places. This calls into question the competence and/or the motives of the anonymous translators of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. The following examples are not a complete listing of the words, but are a sampling for purposes of discussion only. Please feel free to check my accuracy yourself.

  2. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    15 Feb '13 13:37 / 2 edits

    Greek Word - Translated - Scripture
    kupie Jehovah Acts 1:24
    kupie Jehovah Acts 4:29
    kupie Lord (Jesus) Matthew 9:28
    kupie Lord (Jesus) Matthew 15:27
    kupie Lord (Jesus) Matthew 16:22
    Kupie Jehovah Acts 7:60
    Kupie Jehovah Romans 10:16
    Kupie Jehovah Romans 11:3
    Kupie Lord (Jesus) Matthew 8:2
    Kupie Lord (Jesus) Luke 9:54
    Kupie Lord (Jesus) John 6:68

    kupiw Jehovah Matthew 5:33
    kupiw Jehovah Luke 2:22
    kupiw Jehovah Acts 13:2
    kupiw Jehovah Acts 14:3
    kupiw Jehovah Acts 14:23
    kupiw Lord (Jesus) Luke 17:5
    kupiw Lord (Jesus) Romans 14:14
    kupiw Lord (Jesus) Romans 16:18

    kupios Jehovah Mark 5:19
    kupios Jehovah Luke 2:15
    kupios Jehovah Acts 2:47
    kupios Jehovah Acts 7:33
    kupios Lord (Jesus) Mark 2:28
    kupios Lord (Jesus) Luke 2:11
    kupios Lord (Jesus) Luke 7:13
    Kupios Jehovah Matthew 27:10
    Kupios Jehovah Mark 13:20
    Kupios Jehovah Luke 1:25
    Kupios Lord (Jesus) Luke 6:5
    Kupios Lord (Jesus) Romans 10:9
    Kupios Lord (Jesus) 1 Corinthians 12:3

    kupiov Jehovah Acts 2:25
    kupiov Jehovah Acts 8:24
    kupiov Jehovah Romans 15:11
    kupiov Jehovah 1 Corinthians 10:22
    kupiov Lord (Jesus) John 11:2
    kupiov Lord (Jesus) John 20:2
    kupiov Lord (Jesus) Acts 9:27
    kupiov Lord (Jesus) Acts 11:20

    Some legitimate concerns about changes and positions taken by the Watch Tower.
    1970 Revision Hebrews 1:6 but when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels worship him."

    1984 Revision Hebrews 1:6 But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obeisance to him."

    The Bible scholars who translated the King James Version of the Bible translated the Hebrew abbreviation of God's name in the Old Testament ... "YHWH" ... as Jehovah, but the Watch Tower translators have inserted "JEHOVAH" over 200 times in the New Testament.

    The Tetragrammaton "YHWH" was not used in the Greek Scriptures. The Watchtower's 1969 interlinear translation doesn't show JEHOVAH in the word for word English which appears under the Greek text. This turns Romans 14:8-9 into a logical non sequitur (a conclusion or inference that does not follow from the premises or a remark having no bearing on what has just been said).

    1970 Revision Romans 14:8-9 "for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living.

    Watchtower Society changes in the New World Translation text a number of times since the first publication in the 1950's is viewed by many as the incremental changes necessary to bring it into agreement with Watchtower doctrines. WITH THE CHANGES BEING DOCUMENTED, HOW DOES A JEHOVAH WITNESS ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM?

    The words of Jesus in John 8:58 are shown in the Interlinear Translation as "Ego eirni" (I AM). It is the same "I AM" as in a footnote on Exodus 3:14 in the 1984 large-print Watchtower's New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures with References. WHY?

    1970 Revision Deuteronomy 18:20-22
    "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him,"

    The Watchtower, 4/1/72, p. 197.
    "This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning..."

    The Watchtower, 12/1/81, p, 2 7.
    "Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do."
    Is the Watchtower organization really "the Prophet", the channel of communication from God, as it represents itself to be?


    Thy Kingdom Come, 1903 Edition, p. 352,
    sets forth the teaching that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was "Inspired" of God just like the Bible. Society publications translated inches of pyramid measurements into calendar years, to foretell future events.

    The Time Is at Hand, 1904 edition, p. 101
    prophesied that the Battle of Armageddon "will end in A.0. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership". DID THIS HAPPEN?

    Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, pp. 89-90 prophesied the resurrection for the year 1925: "They are to be resurrected as perfect men and constitute the princes or rulers in the earth, according to his promise .Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old". DID THIS HAPPEN?

    The Watchtower, 8/15/68, p. 494. From the article, "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?": Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah's loving and timely purposes... It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years [p. 499]. DID THIS HAPPEN?

    Awake Magazine, 8/3/9 3, p, 4, taken from the section as published inside the cover of all Awake magazines: Why Awake! is published. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away. WILL THIS COME TO PASS?

    My dear friend, my purpose in bringing this Information to light certainly is not to belittle or judge you as an individual. We are warned in I John 4:1 "Beloved ones do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
  3. 15 Feb '13 13:56
    Yawn....... Been here and done this before. Refer back to a hundred postings on this subject.
  4. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    15 Feb '13 16:26
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yawn....... Been here and done this before. Refer back to a hundred postings on this subject.
    I thought it was pretty good in terms of how the writer had constructed the letter; what did you think of the various points raised in it?
  5. 15 Feb '13 16:40
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I thought it was pretty good in terms of how the writer had constructed the letter; what did you think of the various points raised in it?
    Well most of what was said has been discussed here at RHP many times. If you would be specific on what points you want to discuss, show them. But if it is one we have gone over and over already, I'll pass. If they were not answered the way you liked the 1st thru the 15th time they were discussed, it will do no good to go over it again.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Feb '13 17:30
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yawn....... Been here and done this before.
    Why not go through it point by point refuting it?
  7. 15 Feb '13 17:37
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why not go through it point by point refuting it?
    Lol... Yeah right. You never give up do you? Now that I know you are here I'll not be responding to this thread AT ALL!
  8. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Feb '13 17:42
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Lol... Yeah right. You never give up do you? Now that I know you are here I'll not be responding to this thread AT ALL!
    Yes, good. Right. But why not go through it refuting it all point by point? You are here to talk about the ideology of your denomination, right? Please don't pretend that talking about your group burdens you.
  9. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    15 Feb '13 18:42
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well most of what was said has been discussed here at RHP many times. If you would be specific on what points you want to discuss, show them. But if it is one we have gone over and over already, I'll pass. If they were not answered the way you liked the 1st thru the 15th time they were discussed, it will do no good to go over it again.
    Have you read the letter?
  10. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    15 Feb '13 21:40
    I'd be interested to know if either robbie carrobie or Galveston have actually read the letter above?