1. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    20 Mar '12 16:53
    From the Russellite thread:

    RJ:

    I did not mean this as an attack. I meant it for education. The point is that the
    JWs goes back only to the late 1800s to a young man of 20 years old. How
    could he possibly know more than the Church fathers that go back to the first
    century? This man claims no supenatural source of knowledge like Christ.


    So the legitimate connection to Jesus is the Apostolic Succession -- as per Matthew 28:19–20? This leaves out all the Protestants. How Roman Catholic of you, RJ!

    Maybe all the Christians here should state their spiritual lineage back to Jesus, to see if the JWs are especially broken off from the succession. A sort of "I am Spartacus" moment.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12724
    20 Mar '12 17:45
    Originally posted by JS357
    From the Russellite thread:

    RJ:

    I did not mean this as an attack. I meant it for education. The point is that the
    JWs goes back only to the late 1800s to a young man of 20 years old. How
    could he possibly know more than the Church fathers that go back to the first
    century? This man claims no supenatural source of knowledge like Christ.
    ...[text shortened]... e if the JWs are especially broken off from the succession. A sort of "I am Spartacus" moment.
    You are not really saying to be a true Christian one must be a Roman Catholic are you?
  3. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    20 Mar '12 18:56
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You are not really saying to be a true Christian one must be a Roman Catholic are you?
    It sounds like you want religious sources to trace back a lot further than the late 1800s. It sounds you want them to trace all the way back to the first century. It sounds a lot like Apostolic Succession. So I'm asking the forum about this. Do people's choices of religious sources trace all the way back to the beginnings? I've asked about spiritual sources before, so this is in the same vein. I think that many Christian lineages were affected by various schisms and revolts. Which if any of them are "broken" lineages? For example, the Lutherans, Copts, Russian Orthodox, Presbyterians, Shakers?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12724
    20 Mar '12 19:07
    Originally posted by JS357
    It sounds like you want religious sources to trace back a lot further than the late 1800s. It sounds you want them to trace all the way back to the first century. It sounds a lot like Apostolic Succession. So I'm asking the forum about this. Do people's choices of religious sources trace all the way back to the beginnings? I've asked about spiritual sources be ...[text shortened]... ken" lineages? For example, the Lutherans, Copts, Russian Orthodox, Presbyterians, Shakers?
    Martin Luther was only pointing out errors or apostasies that had been adopted
    by the Roman Catholic Church so they could be corrected. However, instead of
    corrcecting them they excommunicated Luther from the RCC and called him an
    apostate.
  5. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    20 Mar '12 19:141 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Martin Luther was only pointing out errors or apostasies that had been adopted
    by the Roman Catholic Church so they could be corrected. However, instead of
    corrcecting them they excommunicated Luther from the RCC and called him an
    apostate.
    So assuming the RCC broke its own linkage back to the first century, is Luther part of the unbroken linkage back to the first century? Is the KJV an unbroken link back to the first century?
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12724
    20 Mar '12 20:172 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    So assuming the RCC broke its own linkage back to the first century, is Luther part of the unbroken linkage back to the first century? Is the KJV an unbroken link back to the first century?
    I am not speaking of an unbroken lineage from all of the apostles. I am speaking of
    qualified people to teach others about the truth of Christ.

    You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.

    (2 Timothy 2:1-2 NIV)

    But the apostasy and falling away from the truth because of a pretender setting himself
    up in the place of God as the Vicar of Christ was predicted long ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicar_of_Christ

    "BUT RELATIVE to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and our gathering together to [meet] Him, we beg you, brethren, not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here.

    Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition), who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.

    Do you not recollect that when I was still with you, I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.

    For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.

    The coming [of the lawless one, the antichrist] is through the activity and working of Satan and will be attended by great power and with all sorts of [pretended] miracles and signs and delusive marvels--[all of them] lying wonders--And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved.

    Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.

    But we, brethren beloved by the Lord, ought and are obligated [as those who are in debt] to give thanks always to God for you, because God chose you from the beginning as His firstfruits (first converts) for salvation through the sanctifying work of the [Holy] Spirit and [your] belief in (adherence to, trust in, and reliance on) the Truth.

    [It was] to this end that He called you through our Gospel, so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

    So then, brethren, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions and instructions which you were taught by us, whether by our word of mouth or by letter.

    (2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 Amplified Bible)
Back to Top