Originally posted by Halitose [b]In effect, you are simply shifting the unwarranted claim that theists have made here many times against atheists to pantheists i.e. that they have no standards of morality.
Strawman. The claim is not that atheists/pantheists have no morals, but rather that morality isn't dictated by their belief systems. Pantheism seems to even discourage it in my view, since how could you morally judge/question God?[/b]
You insist on projecting your concept of God onto other belief systems. I don't see why a pantheist would have to morally judge/question God in the sense you are talking about since he doesn't believe in its existence. He can simply say that there is a system of morality inherent in the very structure of the universe. Thus there is no need for an outside God to impose his moral system on the universe at all.
Originally posted by Halitose The claim is not that atheists/pantheists have no morals, but rather that morality isn't dictated by their belief systems. Pantheism seems to even discourage it in my view, since how could you morally judge/question God?
I don't know much about pantheism. But speaking for the atheist: so you are saying that 'a lack of belief in a god or gods' does not dictate morality? Agreed. So what? Questions in morality are approached through ethical theory. Since Divine Command Theory is false, God doesn't merely dictate morality either (even if He did exist). Your adherence to a particular faith may 'dictate' that you assume some handed-down ethical theory that ye dare not judge/question. I don't consider that an advantageous feature of your belief, but rather just a sloppy way to approach ethics.
Originally posted by LemonJello I don't know much about pantheism. But speaking for the atheist: so you are saying that 'a lack of belief in a god or gods' does not dictate morality? Agreed. So what? Questions in morality are approached through ethical theory. Since Divine Command Theory is false, God doesn't merely dictate morality either (even if He did exist). Your adherence to ...[text shortened]... an advantageous feature of your belief, but rather just a sloppy way to approach ethics.
Originally posted by no1marauder You insist on projecting your concept of God onto other belief systems. I don't see why a pantheist would have to morally judge/question God in the sense you are talking about since he doesn't believe in its existence. He can simply say that there is a system of morality inherent in the very structure of the universe. Thus there is no need for an outside God to impose his moral system on the universe at all.
Are you being purposely selective in your reading of my posts? Perhaps I need to spell it out: Hitler, Stalin, George Bush, Genghis Khan, Marilyn Manson, Marilyn Monroe and what they do/did are all exhibitions of God -- they are all one and the same. Where does natural law come into the equation? Are you saying Stalin/Manson’s feelings and actions were contrary to the inherent “spirit of morality” of the universe? It can only be contrary if it is not part of itself. You can’t have your cake and eat it, bud.
By making God to be all, you make him to be nothing.
Originally posted by LemonJello I don't know much about pantheism. But speaking for the atheist: so you are saying that 'a lack of belief in a god or gods' does not dictate morality? Agreed. So what? Questions in morality are approached through ethical theory. Since Divine Command Theory is false, God doesn't merely dictate morality either (even if He did exist). Your adherence to ...[text shortened]... an advantageous feature of your belief, but rather just a sloppy way to approach ethics.
Atheists: Account for existence
17 Apr '06 22:00
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