@ghost-of-a-duke saidJesus said:
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (John 15:12-14 KJV)
A couple things are clear here
- that Jesus is laying down his life for some people, his friends
- that Jesus defines his friends as those who keep his commandments
This appears to be completely the opposite of what contemporary Christianity preaches today.
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02 Apr 21
5 edits
Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while we were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.
"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)
It will take eternity . . . it will take forever . . . to plumb the depths of the significance of what Christ did for sinners.
More than humanistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time, eternity and the universe.
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02 Apr 21
@sonship saidYes.
Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while were were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.
"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)
It will take eternity . . . it will take ...[text shortened]... manistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time eternity and the universe.
I was just trying to balance the atonement of Christ with Dive's assertion that altruistic acts do not exist.
@sonship saidIf you remain enemies with God then you are doomed. It is a favourite church pastime to continue on with the boast that they are sinners, filthy sinners, evil sinners, enemies of God.
Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while were were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.
"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)
It will take eternity . . . it will take ...[text shortened]... manistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time eternity and the universe.
But that is not what Jesus wants. Jesus wants that after you accept him and profess faith, you to repent, to change and to keep his commandments. Then and only then do you become friends of Jesus.. A friend of Jesus is a friend of God and these get eternal life. An enemy of Jesus is going to be cast out.
Therefore Jesus died for those who keep the commandments because those who dont are going to be damned anyway.
02 Apr 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidno
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated
the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous
i do not have an example
02 Apr 21
@rookie54 saidWhile I would not rank acts of selflessness, there is a good example of the man who seeing live grenade drop inside their tent, dived on it a covered it with his body as that was the only way to save everyone else. I think this story came out of WWII. There most be many more like it.
no
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated
the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous
i do not have an example
02 Apr 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidCan you provide an appropriate, topic inclusive, working definition of altruism?
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?
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02 Apr 21
@divegeester saidA selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing into a burning building to save somebody, a mother taking a bullet to save the life of her child.
Can you provide an appropriate, topic inclusive, working definition of altruism?
Altruism is not negated by a nice feeling we might get afterwards. Altruism is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAll the time, surrounded by them, it goes on. Jesus is watching who are doing it and who are the ones making excuses. A man is better off going and giving of his time and money to help and needy case than going to church and making the pastor rich.
A selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing int ...[text shortened]... sm is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.
There was this 3 week crusade in my area prior to this Easter weekend. Seven Day Adventists I think they were, and on several nights they spend hours and hours preaching about how to give money to the church and all the blessings people get. It was sickening just to listen to them.
02 Apr 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidCould you distil this down to a succinct definition so I can contribute intelligently rather than just banter about wether altruism (by perhaps another definition) exists.
A selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing int ...[text shortened]... sm is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.
02 Apr 21
@rookie54 saidBut why must altruism be spontaneous?
no
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated
the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous
i do not have an example
Are you saying that planned altruism isn't nearly as good?
Why not?
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02 Apr 21
@rajk999 saidYou're mad with Witness Lee because the Apostle Paul wrote -
Jesus gave many. Take the trouble to read the Gospel of Christ and burn all those books by Witness Lee and you will have treasure in heaven.
"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)
You're problem isn't with Lee. Its always been with the New Testament.
You never accepted it.