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    31 Aug '17 18:34
    Originally posted by @fmf
    I lost my faith. I explained that before.
    By choice.
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    31 Aug '17 18:35
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    By choice.
    How does my loss of faith address my post at the top of page 1?
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    31 Aug '17 18:38
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Well there are 7.5 billion people in the world, and only 2.2 billion of them are Christians. If you, as a Christian, believe that your god figure/Jesus has "revealed" himself to the other 5.3 billion, and you think they believe the story is credible, find it to be true, and therefore believe it, but have nevertheless rejected it for some peculiar reason - beari ...[text shortened]... e world have confirmed this in your mind, then fair enough. It's not been my observation at all.
    Becoming a Christian means leaving your comfort zone, not many people are willing to do that.
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    31 Aug '17 18:38
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    By choice.
    I didn't choose to lose my faith, nor can I now somehow simply chose to have that faith again. We went over this before. Why are you asking me about it again?
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    31 Aug '17 18:40
    Originally posted by @fmf
    How does my loss of faith address my post at the top of page 1?
    If you want me to believe that you had no choice or free will in the matter be my guest. I'm not buying it.
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    31 Aug '17 18:40
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Becoming a Christian means leaving your comfort zone, not many people are willing to do that.
    A more considered reply to what I took the time to type for you would advance the conversation more than this bland statement that anyone could probably say about pretty much any ideology.
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    31 Aug '17 18:441 edit
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you want me to believe that you had no choice or free will in the matter be my guest. I'm not buying it.
    But you said all this before. I know you think I simply decided to not believe in the Bible and I know you think I could simply chose to believe it again. We went over this before. We disagree about it. As you know. So what about the content of my post on page1?
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    31 Aug '17 18:521 edit
    Originally posted by @fmf
    But you said all this before. I know you think I simply decided to not believe in the Bible and I know you think I could simply chose to believe it again. We went over this before. We disagree about it. As you know. So what about the content of my post on page1?
    So if you are a robot, and can't make any choices for yourself, why are you complaining that only a minority of people end up choosing Christianity? 🙄

    Or are you saying that I have am forced to be a Christian and it is not my choice?
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    31 Aug '17 18:57
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    So if you are a robot, and can't make any choices for yourself, why are you complaining that only a minority of people end up choosing Christianity? 🙄
    No, I am not a robot. And yes, I am able to make choices. You tried to make this point before when we talked about this before and we discussed it before and I responded to it before. If it's the only thing you can think of to say in reply to my post at the top of page 1, then I am not interested.
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    31 Aug '17 18:58
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Or are you saying that I have am forced to be a Christian and it is not my choice?
    Is this supposed to be in reply to my post at the top of page 1?
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    31 Aug '17 19:17
    Originally posted by @fmf
    No, I am not a robot. And yes, I am able to make choices. You tried to make this point before when we talked about this before and we discussed it before and I responded to it before. If it's the only thing you can think of to say in reply to my post at the top of page 1, then I am not interested.
    So if you were/are able to make choices did you not choose to be a Christian (when you were one) because you found the revelation of Jesus to be straightforward?
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    31 Aug '17 19:262 edits
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Could you explain this request? Surely there are all manner of credible options that people can opt for in the secular world. I'm not sure I understand what kinds of examples you want.
    The example I used is global warming and two options are that human activity is causal/not causal. Whether both are "credible" at this point in time is a question. Perhaps the theological equivalent is whether we have free will and are causal (and therefore responsible) agents in the narural world. Do you think the idea that human activity is causal of global warming is credible? Do you think that the idea that humans have free will is credible? I assume you agree that an idea can be "credible" before all the facts are known about its truth. "Credible" being rather like "plausible."

    At bottom I am interested in whether this thread has legs.
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    31 Aug '17 19:35
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    So if you were/are able to make choices did you not choose to be a Christian (when you were one) because you found the revelation of Jesus to be straightforward?
    No, I did not choose to become a Christian. I have told you all this before and yet you are asking me the same things yet again. I was raised a Christian. I continued to be one for 25+ adult years. I then gradually lost my faith. It was, for all intents and purposes something that happened to me. I did not choose to lose it. I did, however, choose to stop claiming that I was a Christian. And I choose now to share my perspectives on faith and free will, and they are the perspectives I answer for. You can find them on page 1.
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    31 Aug '17 19:44
    Originally posted by @js357
    Do you think that the idea that humans have free will is credible?
    When it comes to superstition - by which I mean a belief in supernatural causality and supernatural things like immortality - no, not really. I think if someone is a profoundly religious Muslim, for example, who is convinced of the truth of all the tenets of their faith, I don't think there is some kind of 'free will' that can be brought to bear on all those notions and assumptions that can lead to a decision to not believe them.
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    31 Aug '17 19:47
    Originally posted by @fmf
    No, I did not choose to become a Christian. I have told you all this before and yet you are asking me the same things yet again. I was raised a Christian. I continued to be one for 25+ adult years. I then gradually lost my faith. It was, for all intents and purposes something that happened to me. I did not choose to lose it. I did, however, choose to stop claim ...[text shortened]... on faith and free will, and they are the perspectives I answer for. You can find them on page 1.
    Being a Christian is a choice, i.e to follow Jesus. Did you never choose to follow Jesus? Were you forced to be a Christian for 25+ years against your will?
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