1. Earth Prime
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    18 Apr '06 01:231 edit
    I always thought it was not by works that we get to heaven, and several verses say that. But what about this from Mathew 25:

    31 "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand,'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

    35 for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, saying,'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you?

    39 When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?' "The King will answer them,'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.' Then he will say also to those on the left hand,'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink;

    43 I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.' "Then they will also answer, saying,'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?' "Then he will answer them, saying,'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.'

    46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

    Looks like God has separated the folks by what they did or did not do for other people. The goats to hell and the sheep to heaven. Explain. Discuss.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    18 Apr '06 02:24
    Originally posted by Coconut
    I always thought it was not by works that we get to heaven, and several verses say that. But what about this from Mathew 25:

    31 "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd se ...[text shortened]... er people. The goats to hell and the sheep to heaven. Explain. Discuss.
    Matthew and Paul didn't see eye to eye on many things.
  3. Joined
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    18 Apr '06 05:27
    Originally posted by Coconut
    I always thought it was not by works that we get to heaven, and several verses say that. But what about this from Mathew 25:

    31 "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd se ...[text shortened]... er people. The goats to hell and the sheep to heaven. Explain. Discuss.
    Its not the works that saves you, Its the Faith, and Gods Grace, However faith without works is dead, which means; you dont really have faith if your not doing works.
  4. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    18 Apr '06 05:46
    Originally posted by flyUnity
    Its not the works that saves you, Its the Faith, and Gods Grace, However faith without works is dead, which means; you dont really have faith if your not doing works.
    So say I performed works equal to those Mother Teresa performed but I do so not because I believe in God but because I believe helping other humans is the right thing to do morally I would go to hell?
  5. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    18 Apr '06 06:17
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    So say I performed works equal to those Mother Teresa performed but I do so not because I believe in God but because I believe helping other humans is the right thing to do morally I would go to hell?
    Yes you would then go to hell, cause of the fact that you dont believe in God.
  6. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    18 Apr '06 06:32
    Originally posted by Coconut
    I always thought it was not by works that we get to heaven, and several verses say that. But what about this from Mathew 25:

    31 "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd se ...[text shortened]... er people. The goats to hell and the sheep to heaven. Explain. Discuss.
    I would say that most people think that by ONLY doing right to other people could bring them into heaven without having to believe in God or by following ALL HIS RULES.

    I believe that once you are a Christian, the things written in these verses must become part of you to help. It must burn like fire in your heart to be nice and giving etc etc.
  7. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    18 Apr '06 08:39
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Well then I'd go gladly knowing that God was a right bastard and I wouldn't want into his 'self-righteousness squad' anyway.
    Xanthos, why call God names when you dont believe in Him?
    If you dont believe what Christians believe, please still have some respect?
  8. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    18 Apr '06 08:50
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Xanthos, why call God names when you dont believe in Him?
    If you dont believe what Christians believe, please still have some respect?
    Why should I have respect for Christian's beliefs when at every turn I'm confronted by Christians showing utter contempt for anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do.
  9. Joined
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    18 Apr '06 09:521 edit
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    So say I performed works equal to those Mother Teresa performed but I do so not because I believe in God but because I believe helping other humans is the right thing to do morally I would go to hell?
    You forget, God invented morals, Xanthos, without a belief in him you're just an amoral automaton.
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Apr '06 09:57
    Originally posted by Starrman
    You forget, God invented morals, Xanthos, without a belief in him you're just an amoral automaton.
    Worse than that, you automatically belong to the "atheist mutual admiration society".
  11. Joined
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    18 Apr '06 09:59
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    So say I performed works equal to those Mother Teresa performed...
    Now that's what I call a hypothetical question.
  12. Joined
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    18 Apr '06 10:001 edit
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Well then I'd go gladly knowing that God was a right bastard and I wouldn't want into his 'self-righteousness squad' anyway.
    Satan takes people regardless of beliefs, sexual preferences, etc.

    He sounds much nicer.
  13. Standard memberHalitose
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    18 Apr '06 10:12
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Why should I have respect for Christian's beliefs when at every turn I'm confronted by Christians showing utter contempt for anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do.
    Contempt for everyone?
  14. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    18 Apr '06 12:28
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Contempt for everyone?
    Once I realized that everyone was stupid in comparison to myself it was easy.
  15. London
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    18 Apr '06 12:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Matthew and Paul didn't see eye to eye on many things.
    Or maybe they did* and people just do not see that the word "faith" was being used differently.

    ---
    * James (Matthew was written by the Jerusalem church, IIRC) and Paul
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