Calling out blackbeetle and Bosse de Nage...

Originally posted by black beetle
I bow; let's dance🙂


What do you and your rabbi think regarding Keter-Tiphereth-Yesod? Is this triangle relevant to the Trikaya and to the Christian Trinity?
😵

I am not sure what Ouaknin says about these sephirot as a triad in his book on QBLH (which I have, but is really only an introductory work). I also cannot say anything about Trikaya, since I have not looked at it (except for some of your posts).


I do not see those spehirot as a “trinity” at all, but a moving “fulcrum” (and including da’at), dynamically balancing the left and right sides (as a dancer balances even as she moves). Yesod embodies the final “balance in tension” before release to generate malchut, from which the oscillation begins again (malchut of one world becomes keter of the next?).


But each generated malchut is new. Four worlds as a useful analytical device, but—worlds in worlds in worlds! The pattern is not so fixed as to deny novelty (one might say that Epicurus’ “atomic swerve”, metaphorically, is involved in each new oscillation).


The point is not to stand still in balance, but to oscillate—to dance—in balance. (Sabbath (Shabbos) is a kind of tztimtzum in time, in which to re-gather energy to dance once again.)


And the new beginning of the dance always involves a new shevirah ha’kelim, a new shattering of the vessels. I am reformulating the whole Lurianic doctrine based on the oscillation of shevirah and tikkun… (along the lines of Ouaknin’s analysis of Rebbe Nachman).

Originally posted by vistesd
I am not sure what Ouaknin says about these sephirot as a triad in his book on QBLH (which I have, but is really only an introductory work). I also cannot say anything about Trikaya, since I have not looked at it (except for some of your posts).


I do not see those spehirot as a “trinity” at all, but a moving “fulcrum” (and including da’at), dynamicall ...[text shortened]... he oscillation of shevirah and tikkun… (along the lines of Ouaknin’s analysis of Rebbe Nachman).

So for the time being the miscellaneous gods and every ancient pantheon are not yet located at your Otz Chiim! Therefore your -accurate!- interpretation is identical to the three Pragna streams Ida, Pinghala and Sushumna -and it is also identical to Yin and Yang with Tao balancing them. Furthermore the Central pillar/ stream is recognized as the Mind that balances the negative and the positive agents/ aspects of the Manifestation. Microcosmically, the symbolism used to describe the expansion of the consciousness does not follow the sephiroth but starts from Malkhut and rises to Yesod and from there to Tiphereth. Our consciousness is based on Malkhut and after every projection it returns there becoming again functional at that level: Malkhut the Shining Intelligence rides over every head and sits on the throne of Bhinah; Yesod is Clear Intelligence because it purifies the manifestations; Tiphereth is Intelligence In Between because at its sphere the incoming of the manifestation is multiplied; and Daat is the product of our conceptual and non-conceptual awareness, therefore it symbolizes the idea of changing keys during our rising from level to level.

Methinks each ancient pantheon located on the tree is itself a key. For example: I am an atheist and not a Christian, but I cannot state that the Christians worship a lamb -however the Christian Lamb seems to me a variation of the Taurus of Mithra. It seems to me that every god analogous to Kronos is located in Bhinah; Bhinah-Chochmah is analogous to Rea and Kronos whilst Zeus is located in Hesed; Mars and the gods of war are located in Ghevourah; Venus and the gods of love are located in Netzah; the mystic gods are located in Hodh and the sacrificed gods and saviors are located in Tiphereth; Hecate and all the goddesses symbolized with the Moon are located in Yesod (over here methinks that the Christian Holy Spirit is Ruach Eloim Chiim).

It is my knowledge that the sephiroth are physical forces whilst the ways conditions of consciousness (modes of mind) they remain; however the ways are ruled by the Numbers that govern the sephiroth that they connect, and they should not be interpreted by means of other systems (of evaluation of the mind) alien to qblh. All in all, methinks that the Christian Trinity is a result of a specific approach of Otz Chiim by means of a system (the Christian doctrines as a whole) alien to qblh.

Be well my friend😵

Originally posted by black beetle
So for the time being the miscellaneous gods and every ancient pantheon are not yet located at your Otz Chiim! Therefore your -accurate!- interpretation is identical to the three Pragna streams Ida, Pinghala and Sushumna -and it is also identical to Yin and Yang with Tao balancing them. Furthermore the Central pillar/ stream is recognized as the Mind th ...[text shortened]... by means of a system (the Christian doctrines as a whole) alien to qblh.

Be well my friend😵

So for the time being the miscellaneous gods and every ancient pantheon are not yet located at your Otz Chiim!


Correct; but my interest lies within the spiritual aesthetic of (a liberal, neo-hasidic, non-dualist) Judaism. (I am listening to some traditional niggun as I write this!) But from the perspective of the “perennial philosophy”—which is also my perspective—you are right on all points!


…and it is also identical to Yin and Yang with Tao balancing them.


Absolutely.


Microcosmically, the symbolism used to describe the expansion of the consciousness does not follow the sephiroth but starts from Malkhut and rises to Yesod and from there to Tiphereth. Our consciousness is based on Malkhut and after every projection it returns there becoming again functional at that level…


Right, exactly. In fact, Luria describes his version of Oetz Chaim as the pathways of return, and says that Cordovero’s version represented the pathways of emanation. (Which is perhaps why da’at does not seem to be represented in Cordovero’s tree?)


I am seeing more clearly Binah as the “mother”: the source of all the lower sephirot. I am toying with the idea that Binah represents a “shattering” (shevirah) of the holistic Hochmah, which allows the differentiated sephirot to emerge. It is really Cordovero’s Tree that I am (potentially) revisioning, not Luria’s. Psychologically, Binah is “left brain”, Hochmah is “right brain”.


Shalom (well-being) and berakhot (blessings), to you and yours! 🙂

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]So for the time being the miscellaneous gods and every ancient pantheon are not yet located at your Otz Chiim!


Correct; but my interest lies within the spiritual aesthetic of (a liberal, neo-hasidic, non-dualist) Judaism. (I am listening to some traditional niggun as I write this!) But from the perspective of the “perennial philosophy”—which i ...[text shortened]... hmah is “right brain”.


Shalom (well-being) and berakhot (blessings), to you and yours! 🙂[/b]

The ancient rabbis loved the traps! Da’at exists at a different dimension and it constitutes a pyramid with the heavenly sephiroth. The main symbolism of Da’at is the idea of consciousness/ understanding/ awareness/ shifting of the point of attention (enlightenment)/ loss of ignorance; it is the point of balance/ conjunction of Chokmah and Binah, of the Heavenly Father and the Heavenly Mother that are forever unified in Yesod: one can see them in Yesod solely thanks to Da’at, so Da’at is the Way of the Beauty itself and at the same time the agent for the conjunction of Tiphereth and Malkhut, so it is the soul of the whole emanation because it is open to the one that it is emanated from itself.

Da’at stands at the point where the Abyss cuts the central stream and on the Way to the Arrow, therefore it is the key of birth and of rebirth and thus the key of the unification of the opposites into a Third. This unification is the way the Tree unveils its secrets.

So the central stream is directed downwards through Da’at. Stuff of Keter crosses the Abyss through Knowledge, reaches Tiphereth and it is manifested there as the Eternal Child, reaches non-conceptual awareness in Yesod and conceptual awareness in Malkhut; this is how awareness is achieved: exelixis is the rising of the one that came down and it is manifested from Keter to Malkhut, but awareness is manifested solely when the sephiroth are balanced. Follow Qeseth and see it for yourself: Gabriel points Aziluth at the deep indigo area, Briah at the violet, Yetzirah at the deepest red and Assiah at the lime yellow with blue spots. Our personified vices are waiting in Assiah.

Best wishes and Happy New Year to you and yours😵

Originally posted by black beetle
The ancient rabbis loved the traps! Da’at exists at a different dimension and it constitutes a pyramid with the heavenly sephiroth. The main symbolism of Da’at is the idea of consciousness/ understanding/ awareness/ shifting of the point of attention (enlightenment)/ loss of ignorance; it is the point of balance/ conjunction of Chokmah and Binah, of the ...[text shortened]... ur personified vices are waiting in Assiah.

Best wishes and Happy New Year to you and yours😵

The ancient rabbis loved the traps!


No doubt! 🙂


Good stuff on da’at! The “main symbolism” of da’at that you articulate is also my understanding. Some questions:


…but awareness is manifested solely when the sephiroth are balanced.


Then da’at is not simply emanated, as, say, are hochmah and binha? Could this be why most kabbalists refer to it as the “non-sephirah”? Can tikkun be couched (at least largely) in terms of finding the balance that allows da’at to manifest?

(This would certainly seem to accord with my understanding as reflected from Zen: that da’at-consciousness would be the same as satori-consciousness.)


The only reference I can find to “Qeseth” is that it is Hebrew for ink-well, or ink-cup. Can you help me out here?

A Happy New Year also to you and yours!

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]The ancient rabbis loved the traps!


No doubt! 🙂


Good stuff on da’at! The “main symbolism” of da’at that you articulate is also my understanding. Some questions:


…but awareness is manifested solely when the sephiroth are balanced.


Then da’at is not simply emanated, as, say, are hochmah and binha? Could this be why most k ...[text shortened]... for ink-well, or ink-cup. Can you help me out here?

A Happy New Year also to you and yours![/b]

Tikkun is an attempt to embrace chaos well enough in order to have “the World saved”, and its key is Adam Kadmon.

Methinks Da’at is not a sephirah, and it is equivalent to a permanent condition of satori.

You need no help for you have a huge ink-well at your disposal and so you can write your personal Torah. For Qeseth is the Way of the Arrow, the Way of the rising of Awareness (the Way of Kundalini for the Eastern): once one meditates over Malkhut and rises to Yesod and from there to Tiphereth, s/he sees Da’at emerging by means of a satori -and once one keeps up this quality of awareness permanently her/ his point of attention (located in an essence whose centre is everywhere and its periphery nowhere) penetrates every aspect.

Zen-Chan-Dhyana-Jhana is deep down Meditation; at the middle level for a fractal of time is Satori; and at the highest level is the Void😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Tikkun is an attempt to embrace chaos well enough in order to have “the World saved”, and its key is Adam Kadmon.

Methinks Da’at is not a sephirah, and it is equivalent to a permanent condition of satori.

You need no help for you have a huge ink-well at your disposal and so you can write your personal Torah. For Qeseth is the Way of the Arrow, th ...[text shortened]... ion; at the middle level for a fractal of time is Satori; and at the highest level is the Void😵

Thank you; understood. (And, with regard to da'at, that is the way I understand it as well.)

Originally posted by vistesd
Thank you; understood. (And, with regard to da'at, that is the way I understand it as well.)

Da'at is the square root of two. (I'm just reading this thread now).

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Da'at is the square root of two. (I'm just reading this thread now).

I bow, Bosse Da'at thagata Nage!




-- "Since I became an emperor I built countless temples and I translated countless sutras. Did I gain grace?"
-- "You gained no grace at all"
-- "How come?"
-- "These noble actions of yours will merely ease you to be born in Heaven; their causation is as simple as the causation of the shadow that follows the body, but they are empty"
-- "What is the agent that causes real grace?"
-- "Purity and wisdom at the level of enlightenment, at which form and ego are empty; this kind of grace is not of this world"
-- "What is the primal agent of holiness?"
-- "There is just vast emptiness; nothing holy"
-- "Who is the one who stands now in front of me?"
-- "I don't know"
😵

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Da'at is the square root of two. (I'm just reading this thread now).

And for how long will you keep up reading it? Leave the temple and get the flag😵

Originally posted by black beetle
And for how long will you keep up reading it? Leave the temple and get the flag😵

Pleasant company is to be enjoyed before it disperses.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Pleasant company is to be enjoyed before it disperses.

Filthy drunkard -but even the kings left their kingdom for some of that wine😵

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Da'at is the square root of two. (I'm just reading this thread now).

Nice!

My recent explorations have me trying to fit deconstruction into...Shal-Om!

Originally posted by vistesd
Nice!

My recent explorations have me trying to fit deconstruction into...Shal-Om!

I laughed heartily when I read this.

Well, I am reading about Georg Cantor at the moment. I have a horrible feeling that set theory and kabbalah are eminently compatible ... Infinities countable and uncountable!

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I laughed heartily when I read this.

Well, I am reading about Georg Cantor at the moment. I have a horrible feeling that set theory and kabbalah are eminently compatible ... Infinities countable and uncountable!

I read Aleph, which started out with Cantor; maybe I should look at it again.

I'm glad you laughed; I had this OMG moment after I got started back into working with rabbinical hermeneutics (midrash really is quite proto-postmodern), and I thought: "Oh, Bosse would love this!"

Be well, old friend.