1. Forgotten
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    28 Oct '05 01:04
    which came first??
    i know its a dumb assed debate but it is related to the did god create man or did man create god debate
    i have determined how ever, that one hand clapping makes no sound ...and that the tree in the forrest makes a sound when it falls irreguardless if someone is there to hear it or not
  2. Standard membertelerion
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    28 Oct '05 01:21
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    which came first??
    i know its a dumb assed debate but it is related to the did god create man or did man create god debate
    i have determined how ever, that one hand clapping makes no sound ...and that the tree in the forrest makes a sound when it falls irreguardless if someone is there to hear it or not
    Well I see the man ---> god connection, but I don't see the god ---> man link, so I don't think that question is as interesting.

    Also from an evolutionary understanding didn't the "chicken" come first?
  3. Not Kansas
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    28 Oct '05 01:23
    Originally posted by telerion
    Well I see the man ---> god connection, but I don't see the god ---> man link, so I don't think that question is as interesting.

    Also from an evolutionary understanding didn't the "chicken" come first?
    The rooster came first.
  4. Standard membertelerion
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    28 Oct '05 02:33
    Ah, good to know.
  5. Forgotten
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    28 Oct '05 03:31
    Originally posted by telerion
    Well I see the man ---> god connection, but I don't see the god ---> man link, so I don't think that question is as interesting.

    Also from an evolutionary understanding didn't the "chicken" come first?
    i dont really understand what you said .
    but at least it was civil . lol
    what the question was really...
    is there a god?? really?? i guess is what it boils down to
    if man created god ,then god mustnt be the omni present omnipotent being .
    so then:
    believers willl say, god created man.
    non believers will say ,man created god
    some will say they themselves are god
    atheist may say ...god?? who??? huh???
    it is a question that when faced tears at ones beliefs
    and a question that most have a heart felt answer for
    personally...i think they are both interdependant
    god and man
  6. Forgotten
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    28 Oct '05 03:35
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    The rooster came first.
    well
    it would have to be the male of the speces i used the term chicken as an overall word to encompass the whole species
    and you know it could not have been a capon lol
  7. Standard membertelerion
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    28 Oct '05 04:19
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    i dont really understand what you said .
    but at least it was civil . lol
    what the question was really...
    is there a god?? really?? i guess is what it boils down to
    if man created god ,then god mustnt be the omni present omnipotent being .
    so then:
    believers willl say, god created man.
    non believers will say ,man created god
    some will say they th ...[text shortened]... ost have a heart felt answer for
    personally...i think they are both interdependant
    god and man
    I have personally struggled with "why reality is rather than is not" and "when I die something will continue forever, but I will not. This is life and it will end for me soon" Taking this last thought seriously is something that I've wrestled with for a few years now. Some tell me that I need to realize that I was never born. That is that the self is an illusion. This seems the most interesting avenue, but we'll see if it brings any comfort. So far the best medicine I've found is not to think on it too much, especially if I'm drinking. Oh and never, under any circumstances bring it up in person with some one who isn't a deep questioning person.

    Even in these moments gods offer me no solace. Frankly, I've put gods in the heap with leprechauns, magic, and karma. I'm out of the god-making business.
  8. Forgotten
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    28 Oct '05 05:001 edit
    i first doubted god at the tender age of 5 .
    when i blew santa claus'cover, found it santa was my folks.
    i knew that the easter bunny and tooth fairy were also bs.
    i reasoned god was someone they had made up,
    to try to make me be good .well i showed them. lol
    later in life, i saw how things all interrelate , how cause and effect,
    action and reaction worked, how a gambit may give you an advantage of sorts.(ok that IS a real miricle lol jk) so i realised that some how there was some thing out there if not a personnage then at least some type of control or law like the laws of pyscics that governed things.i wanted to learn about something that great and tremendous.
    after years and years of study i found that,you cannot question any churches doctrine.you are expected to accept things on faith and not on logic or reason.i cant do that.
    i also noticed that all the xtian churches had a jillion different denominations ,they agree on very little.maybe they agree on the crucifiction death,but they start to differ right there.
    some believe in a spiritual resurrection of believers.others believe in a physical resurrection. while some faiths(bible missionary..holiness doctrines) believe that once they are saved,they have totally quit sinning.they live what they think are sinnless lives, and never need to confess there sins ,since they sin not now.
    others like catholics believe you must have a 1 on 1 confessional with the priest, and do pennitance for their sins.most confess their sins in a church service,out loud in unison.
    then you get into the snake cults and wierder stuff. lol
    many faiths seem to have taken an isolated scripture ,out of context,and built their whole religion on that.like the prosperity doctrines.clavinism is where you go out and sin and confess your sin and go on like that.sunday xtians we called them .
    it was once said that the xtians different beliefs will be their down fall
    that the body of christ would be broken up ,much like the egypian god osiris,another sun(son) of god who was sacrificed.osiris's body was torn to pieces and scatterd then reassembled less his privy parts.
    it will be interesting here in these days to see what happens,
    to say the least. lol
  9. Joined
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    28 Oct '05 05:41
    Originally posted by telerion
    I have personally struggled with "why reality is rather than is not" and "when I die something will continue forever, but I will not. This is life and it will end for me soon" Taking this last thought seriously is something that I've wrestled with for a few years now. Some tell me that I need to realize that I was never b ...[text shortened]... e put gods in the heap with leprechauns, magic, and karma. I'm out of the god-making business.
    Nice post. My struggles are similar. We killed Him, right?* We drank up the sea, we wiped away the entire horizon. But, indeed, how shall we console ourselves? I can only tell you that you are not alone in your struggles.



    *Of course, He might be hiding around somewhere -- maybe playing cards with the leprechauns you mention.
  10. Forgotten
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    28 Oct '05 05:53
    *as homer simpson*
    HHMMM
    LEMON JELLO
    AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHH
    *drooling*
  11. Joined
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    28 Oct '05 06:08
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    *as homer simpson*
    HHMMM
    LEMON JELLO
    AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHH
    *drooling*
    LemonJello = BitterSweet.

    But beware: According to ivanhoe, my recipe has been infected with the remains of dead mice.
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Oct '05 06:57
    http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=20591
  13. Meddling with things
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    28 Oct '05 07:20
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    i dont really understand what you said .
    but at least it was civil . lol
    what the question was really...
    is there a god?? really?? i guess is what it boils down to
    if man created god ,then god mustnt be the omni present omnipotent being .
    so then:
    believers willl say, god created man.
    non believers will say ,man created god
    some will say they th ...[text shortened]... ost have a heart felt answer for
    personally...i think they are both interdependant
    god and man
    If god came first and revealled himself to man there would be a somon theme linking all belief systems. There are, we see, a multiplicity of belief systems. Admittedly there are comon themes between islam christiantity and judaism, but the rest are a dispaerate bunch with no linking theme.

    Therefore god is a human construct
  14. Joined
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    28 Oct '05 09:05
    Originally posted by telerion
    Well I see the man ---> god connection, but I don't see the god ---> man link, so I don't think that question is as interesting.

    Also from an evolutionary understanding didn't the "chicken" come first?
    No no no, the question is not: which came first the chicken or the chicken egg.

    The question was: which came first the chicken or the egg.

    So from an evolutionary understanding the egg came first because the dino's already had egg's and the chickens did not even exist back then.
  15. Standard memberHalitose
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    28 Oct '05 10:07
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    No no no, the question is not: which came first the chicken or the chicken egg.

    The question was: which came first the chicken or the egg.

    So from an evolutionary understanding the egg came first because the dino's already had egg's and the chickens did not even exist back then.
    Since when has evolution been a branch of philosophy?
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