Christianity and censorship

Originally posted by kirksey957
Stephen, I know in the animal kingdom, sexual posturing is often dominance behavior. Perhaps rules are man's way of dominance behavior. I had a golden retreiver once and he was just completely over-sexed. Even after he was neutered he was always climbing on something. If it wasn't a kid in the neighborhood , it was the corner of the bed. It was rea ...[text shortened]... aboo stuff in the animal kingdom so I tend to think we make up our rules for no apparent reason.

Talking about being preoccupied with sex ......

There is a famous Dutch saying which says: Zoals het baasje blaft, blaft ook de hond.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Talking about being preoccupied with sex ......

There is a famous Dutch saying which says: Zoals het baasje blaft, blaft ook de hond.

The point I was making is that he was preoccupied with being the dominant dog.

Originally posted by kirksey957
The point I was making is that he was preoccupied with being the dominant dog.

Sure, that's a way of describing things .....

Originally posted by kirksey957
Stephen, I know in the animal kingdom, sexual posturing is often dominance behavior. Perhaps rules are man's way of dominance behavior. I had a golden retreiver once and he was just completely over-sexed. Even after he was neutered h ...[text shortened]... om so I tend to think we make up our rules for no apparent reason.

…so I tend to think we make up our rules for no apparent reason.

For no reason?

Kirk, I have to disagree. I think people make up social rules and taboos for a whole host of reasons (though sometimes, when circumstances have changed, they might not remember just what they were): for protection (from “the other,” of course), social cohesion, fear, power-over, a relative sense of self-prestige (“at least I’m not_________), etc. Some of the reasons may be as deep-seated and instinctual as other animals, but we can become aware of the reasons if we examine ourselves—perhaps not all of them, but a lot of them I think. After all, we are able to see how some animal behaviors contribute to survival—for the individual or the species—and how sometimes how, when the environment changes, those same instinctual behaviors become counter-productive and even lead to extinctions.

Certain forms of dominance behavior may be instinctual in humans, but it also may be left over from hunter-gatherer days (yes, I know there are still hunter-gatherer societies), and are unhelpful in a larger society, for example. The “other” may be our neighbor. Also, speaking for myself, sexual “dominance” would get in the way of personal intimacy. I’m not sure how much of an issue that is when non-human animals mate. (I've done my share of "posturing" though.)

I go back to what I said: the questions of “to what purpose, for whom, and who decides” are questions that we not only can ask, but I think should ask.

I see this thread had inspired a couple of sideline debates in itself. I will try to answer these later.

Let's start with the dr who had the sex change and is seeing another woman, whom also used to be a man. I believe that sexual reassignment surgery has more to do with one's self indentity then it does with one's sexuality. I hope that helps you better understand, if not ask me and I'll try to answer better.

Nyxie
the Valkyrja

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]…so I tend to think we make up our rules for no apparent reason.

For no reason?

Kirk, I have to disagree. I think people make up social rules and taboos for a whole host of reasons (though sometimes, when circumstances have changed, they might not remember just what they were): for protection (from “the other,” of course), social cohesion, fea ...[text shortened]... se, for whom, and who decides” are questions that we not only can ask, but I think should ask.
[/b]

male dominance and the "missionary position"


Perhaps one of the first sexual urban myths to be inserted into the western collective conscience is that Christian moralists invented "the missionary position." The misnomer is founded in fact. During the fourteenth through the sixteenth centuries, missionaries heading for Africa and the lush South Pacific Islands promoted this position as a remedy for the "unnatural" mating customs of "savages." They took their direction from St. Paul, who cautioned women to keep quiet in church and be submissive to their husbands. Submissive obviously meant male prone above immobilized female flat on her back, a way to keep seductive, sexually powerful women under the control of men. Missionaries also extrapolated that since Adam was created before Eve, and Eve was created subject to Adam, a female should never be above a male.

Nyxie
the Valkyrja

Originally posted by Nyxie
I see this thread had inspired a couple of sideline debates in itself. I will try to answer these later.

Let's start with the dr who had the sex change and is seeing another woman, whom also used to be a man. I believe that sexual reassignment surgery has more to do with one's self indentity then it does with one's sexuality. I hope that helps you better understand, if not ask me and I'll try to answer better.

Nyxie
the Valkyrja

I see this thread had inspired a couple of sideline debates in itself.

Ooops! I was taking censorship to mean censorship of (erotic) behavior and lifestyle, not just in artistic expression....Sorry. 😕

Originally posted by Nyxie
male dominance and the "missionary position"


Perhaps one of the first sexual urban myths to be inserted into the western collective conscience is that Christian moralists invented "the missionary position." The misnomer is founded in fact. During the fourteenth through the sixteenth centuries, missionaries heading for Africa and the lush South Pacific ...[text shortened]... d Eve was created subject to Adam, a female should never be above a male.

Nyxie
the Valkyrja

Nyxie, do you have any information about how they "promoted" this position with the natives? Did they demonstrate it? Observe and correct them?

Originally posted by Nyxie
male dominance and the "missionary position"


Perhaps one of the first sexual urban myths to be inserted into the western collective conscience is that Christian moralists invented "the missionary position." The misnomer is founded in fact. During the fourteenth through the sixteenth centuries, missionaries heading for Africa and the lush South Pacific ...[text shortened]... d Eve was created subject to Adam, a female should never be above a male.

Nyxie
the Valkyrja

A rule based on power-over, turned into a moral law in service of the "kyriarchy."

Originally posted by kirksey957
Nyxie, do you have any information about how they "promoted" this position with the natives? Did they demonstrate it? Observe and correct them?

Oh wow! Or did they have "pornographic" pictures to show? 🙄

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]I see this thread had inspired a couple of sideline debates in itself.

Ooops! I was taking censorship to mean censorship of (erotic) behavior and lifestyle, not just in artistic expression....Sorry. 😕[/b]

No reason at all to apoligize. I started the thread to create discussion. It is working. Censorship itself does partly lie in our societies' inability to accept open sexuality in a public way.

Aother idea of censorship are opposing or "sacriligious" thoughts and ideas.

And a third being the issue of vulgarity and shock value.

Nyxie

Originally posted by vistesd
Oh wow! Or did they have "pornographic" pictures to show? 🙄

Well the ends justifies the means.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Nyxie, do you have any information about how they "promoted" this position with the natives? Did they demonstrate it? Observe and correct them?

I have noticed that some of the descandants of these early South pacific and african converted carry the european names of the Missionaries themselves. So I would say that some ere demonstrated.

In many "savage" societies sexuality was not looked down upon and sexual acts were fairly open to the rest of the village. Some of these societies shared a common house so the sexual practices of one villager would be known to another. Not all people think sex shold only be done in the dark or through a hole in a sheet. 😉

Nyxie

Originally posted by Nyxie
I have noticed that some of the descandants of these early South pacific and african converted carry the european names of the Missionaries themselves. So I would say that some ere demonstrated.

In many "savage" societies sexuality was not looked down upon and sexual acts were fairly open to the rest of the village. Some of these societies shared a common ...[text shortened]... ot all people think sex shold only be done in the dark or through a hole in a sheet. 😉

Nyxie

Fascinating. That might help explain the term "missionary zeal." So besides the lovely weather, there were other incentives to do missionary work.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Fascinating. That might help explain the term "missionary zeal." So besides the lovely weather, there were other incentives to do missionary work.

Try to take at least one issue seriously for a minute kirksey, it just might confuse everyone long enough for you to get an actual point in.

I love ya brother kirksey but it's hard to maintain that serious face when you show up.

Nyxie