1. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 01:01
    In another thread Freaky [rather appropriate name] posted the following:

    The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to replace mine.
    I don't need to worry whether He accepts the work; I already know that He does: it's His perfection He sees standing before Him when He looks at Christ in me.
    I'm guaranteed to find favor because I've exchanged my crap for His gold.


    I will summarise : Freaky can do anything he wants ie sin, live unrighteously, etc and Christ will overlook all that and still 'see' that he is righteous. I would be interested in some references from any who holds similar a doctrine, to support that belief.

    Before posting replies I am familar with some of the references that worldly sinful Christians use to justify their corrupt lifestyle. So please read and understand this from Paul before replying:

    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

    Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:1-11 KJV)
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    12 Dec '13 01:26
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    In another thread Freaky [rather appropriate name] posted the following:

    The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to ...[text shortened]... ll also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:1-11 KJV)
    You lost when you assumed and judged that all who disagree with you are "worldly sinful Christians justifying their lifestyle" or words to that effect.

    Can you see what you did there?
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 01:33
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You lost when you assumed and judged that all who disagree with you are "worldly sinful Christians justifying their lifestyle" or words to that effect.

    Can you see what you did there?
    Disagree with me? I quoted Paul and what he says. Do you agree with Paul or are you on Freaky's side of 'sinning all you can'?

    Remember I did not fall from the sky yesterday. I have been on this site for almost 10 years watching you people boast about being sinners and you are saved eternally and your sins dont count against you.
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    12 Dec '13 01:55
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I have been on this site for almost 10 years watching you people boast about being sinners and you are saved eternally and your sins dont count against you.
    Now you are just getting creepy.

    Nevertheless my original point remains; you lost me in you first post as soon as you judged those who hold a belief which is contradictory to yours.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 02:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Now you are just getting creepy.

    Nevertheless my original point remains; you lost me in you first post as soon as you judged those who hold a belief which is contradictory to yours.
    Some hold a view contrary to Paul.

    If you have a reference to support your doctrine then please quote it or move along. Thanks for your contribution.
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    12 Dec '13 02:13
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Some hold a view contrary to Paul.

    If you have a reference to support your doctrine then please quote it or move along. Thanks for your contribution.
    I hold a view contrary to you, therefore I must be what you describe.
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    12 Dec '13 02:26
    kiss & makeup ... it's almost xmas!
  8. Territories Unknown
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    12 Dec '13 14:17
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    In another thread Freaky [rather appropriate name] posted the following:

    The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to ...[text shortened]... ll also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:1-11 KJV)
    Let's examine your doctrine and see if it holds true.

    What is your claim?
    I don't wish to put words in your mouth or argue for/against a position which you aren't in possession of.
    I'd like to know what your claim is, relative to the spiritual life and (what appears to be) your fixation on sin.

    How do you classify the term 'sin?'
    Define it, if you don't mind.

    What is salvation, and how does it occur?
    Two-parter, both requiring your take.

    Who is the saving agent?
    If you could answer these questions, I'd really appreciate to know your take on them all.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Dec '13 15:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    In another thread Freaky [rather appropriate name] posted the following:

    The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to ...[text shortened]... ll also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:1-11 KJV)
    Your 'summary' is flawed, he never said any such thing.

    You may think you have the biggest hammer on the block, but that does not make every problem or conversation into a nail.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 15:38
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Let's examine your doctrine and see if it holds true.

    [b]What is your claim?

    I don't wish to put words in your mouth or argue for/against a position which you aren't in possession of.
    I'd like to know what your claim is, relative to the spiritual life and (what appears to be) your fixation on sin.

    How do you classify the term 'sin?'
    Def ...[text shortened]... ?[/b]
    If you could answer these questions, I'd really appreciate to know your take on them all.[/b]
    Actually no, you dont get to do that. Let me explain it to you like you were a 5 yr old.

    You made a statement which ended with 'exchanged my crap for his gold'. So it is normal for anyone to require some references for your conclusion. If you have no references from the Bible then just say that.

    As for what you call 'my doctrine', I presented nothing about what I think but only a reference from Paul in Romans 8. You interpret that as you wish.
  11. Territories Unknown
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    12 Dec '13 16:43
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Actually no, you dont get to do that. Let me explain it to you like you were a 5 yr old.

    You made a statement which ended with 'exchanged my crap for his gold'. So it is normal for anyone to require some references for your conclusion. If you have no references from the Bible then just say that.

    As for what you call 'my doctrine', I presented nothing about what I think but only a reference from Paul in Romans 8. You interpret that as you wish.
    Actually no, you dont get to do that. Let me explain it to you like you were a 5 yr old.
    If you can muster yourself up to that level, I'll do my best to dumb myself down to read it.

    So it is normal for anyone to require some references for your conclusion.
    Why didn't you say so? Here ya go:
    - The Bible

    As for what you call 'my doctrine', I presented nothing about what I think but only a reference from Paul in Romans 8. You interpret that as you wish.
    I know this may come as shock to you, but I know you haven't presented anything but a quote.
    This is why I am asking you to make a claim instead of simply decrying my position.
    What is your take on the items listed?
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 17:41
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b]Actually no, you dont get to do that. Let me explain it to you like you were a 5 yr old.
    If you can muster yourself up to that level, I'll do my best to dumb myself down to read it.

    So it is normal for anyone to require some references for your conclusion.
    Why didn't you say so? Here ya go:
    - The Bible

    As for what you call ...[text shortened]... to make a claim instead of simply decrying my position.
    What is your take on the items listed?
    Clearly you are unable to provide some references so lets hope that some other fellow-believer in your doctrine of 'crap to gold' can step in and save you from your embarrassing position.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '13 18:54
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Let's examine your doctrine and see if it holds true.

    [b]What is your claim?

    I don't wish to put words in your mouth or argue for/against a position which you aren't in possession of.
    I'd like to know what your claim is, relative to the spiritual life and (what appears to be) your fixation on sin.

    How do you classify the term 'sin?'
    Def ...[text shortened]... ?[/b]
    If you could answer these questions, I'd really appreciate to know your take on them all.[/b]
    I have no problem answering these question, just not in this thread. So start another if you wish.

    This thread is about your 'crap to gold' comment and your inability to support it with references from the Bible.
  14. Territories Unknown
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    13 Dec '13 21:05
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I have no problem answering these question, just not in this thread. So start another if you wish.

    This thread is about your 'crap to gold' comment and your inability to support it with references from the Bible.
    Honestly, Rajk999, you don't seem the type to listen no matter what is said.
    Your indoctrination is like concrete--- which is good, provided you are right.
    But you continually exhibit an inability to even consider other perspectives, no matter how they're framed.
    Added to that, you refuse to provide any claims or make any statements other than derision and complaint.

    Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.
    And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
    Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.
    And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
    Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
    But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
    For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
    Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    - The Bible
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    14 Dec '13 09:131 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Honestly, Rajk999, you don't seem the type to listen no matter what is said.
    Your indoctrination is like concrete--- which is good, provided you are right.
    But you continually exhibit an inability to even consider other perspectives, no matter how they're framed.
    Added to that, you refuse to provide any claims or make any statements other than derision ...[text shortened]... h our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    [b]- The Bible
    [/b]
    Forget the personal remarks for the time being.

    Your quote from The Bible is Romans 5:1-11. Now I remember you yourself saying that we have be careful to interpret the Bible correctly by taking to taking things in their proper context, and reading the whole story etc etc. I remember pointing out to you that you dont always do that especially when reading the entire passage confiicts with your doctrine. Here it seems that you are doing it again.

    If you continue reading Romans 6,7 and 8 you will see that justification by faith means that those professing faith must live according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

    This is the failure of many churches. In order to keep their churches [and bank accounts] full they preach that justification means the end of work for the believer or faithful. Paul and the Apostles says no such thing. Faith is the start of a process of changing a believer's heart and mind to one fashioned after Christ to good works. Were they to preach the whole story as Paul did in Romans, 6, 7 and 8 then the congregation would run. People like the path of least resistance and relish the idea of eternal life without having to change their lifestyle or having to refrain from sin.

    Many so-called faithful would not make it :

    Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:17-21 KJV)

    Romans Chapter 5 is not the whole story. Continue reading.
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