Dear Fellow Human Beings

By contrast, I have met a fair few Christians who feel misanthropic about the world, and impotent and dismissive about struggling to contribute in some way to improving the lot of their fellow beings.

There are many humanitarian operations started by theists I think more so then there are started by atheists. Your major educational institutions in the US were started by theists. Though now many have moved from that standing , ie Harvard, Princeton, etc.

Young in my Christian life I asked God to put me with believers who would encourage my faith rather than discourage my faith. God was faithful to do that.

These kinds of Christians disappear into their own ideological navel gazing, and pore over the Bible as if doing so, and deriving from it convoluted no-need-to-do-anything dogmatic assertions about the world and the human condition, is somehow "righteousness" in and of itself.

If I wanted to hunt for reasons some Christians furnished rationale for me to not be a follower of Jesus, I could have. Maybe I have seen more discouraging things in that regard then you have. You never know.

Anyway, the Lord's word to me remains "[YOU] . . . follow Me" .

I can follow the Lord Jesus. I have self control. Immature Christians do not force me to imitate them. I still have the option to obey His word "[You] . . . follow Me."

I have raised at risk children in two cycles beyond raising my own kids.
One reason we did it was to improve their chances at success and also improve the fortunes of those around them. Hoping in the full salvation of Christ is not wanting not to be a positive influence on the society in which the Christians lives.

The world, according to so many metrics, is a better place for more humans, and a larger proportion of humans, now, than it was when I was born.

In some sense it is two step forwards and one step backwards.
Sometimes it is one step forward and two steps backward.

It would be unrealistic to think NO forward motion of societal improvement occurs. At the same time the sinful nature of man develops new methods to exploit and hack systems of benefit.

The Internet is a great tool. Also it has become a way to spread lies and misinformation around the world faster than ever before. A step FORWARD and a corresponding step BACKWARDS. That is man's history.

I salute those who have had a hand in that, theists and atheists alike.

I have less respect, in this matter specifically, for those I have encountered throughout my lifetime who have wittered on about the end being nigh, thrown their hands up in an impotent gesture, declared themselves "saved", and looked for solace by continuing to gaze at their navels through their religious prisms.

By the same token when the Titanic is going down, going down with it washing the dirty dishes in the kitchen may be noble. But being "saved" or seeking to be, is no shame.

@sonship said
By the same token when the Titanic is going down, going down with it washing the dirty dishes in the kitchen may be noble. But being "saved" or seeking to be, is no shame.

As I said..

I have met a fair few Christians who feel misanthropic about the world, and impotent and dismissive about struggling to contribute in some way to improving the lot of their fellow beings. These kinds of Christians disappear into their own ideological navel-gazing, and pore over the Bible as if doing so, and deriving from it convoluted no-need-to-do-anything dogmatic assertions about the world and the human condition, is somehow "righteousness" in and of itself.

I have less respect, in this matter specifically, for those like you, sonship, who have wittered on about the end being nigh, thrown their hands up in an impotent gesture, declared themselves "saved", and looked for solace by continuing to gaze at their navels through their religious prisms.

@FMF

I have met a fair few Christians who feel misanthropic about the world, and impotent and dismissive about struggling to contribute in some way to improving the lot of their fellow beings.

I understood you the first time.

These kinds of Christians disappear into their own ideological navel-gazing, and pore over the Bible as if doing so, and deriving from it convoluted no-need-to-do-anything dogmatic assertions about the world and the human condition, is somehow "righteousness" in and of itself.

I understood you the first time.

And you regard yourself as better.
We got it.

I have less respect, in this matter specifically, for those like you, sonship, who have wittered on about the end being nigh, thrown their hands up in an impotent gesture, declared themselves "saved", and looked for solace by continuing to gaze at their navels through their religious prisms.

You continue to repeat your "So Much Better Then Thou" self
congratulations as much as it causes you to feel good about yourself.

Comparing your program with Christ's program, there is no comparison.
There is manifold more hope in Christ's kingship governing within and
without then what you offer after all your poetic sneers are exhausted.

If I had 20 lives to live I wouldn't want to waste even one of them occupied with the atheist aspirations you grasp at. Besides we have living and working models throughout the earth. His kingdom to us is not theoretical. We have few thousand of working models of believers communities that are inheriting the promises as
local churches.

@sonship said
Comparing your program with Christ's program, there is no comparison.

You seem to be blanking out what I've actually said. I have been comparing what many Christians I have encountered do, based on their faith, to the misanthropic self-centred impotent stuff you propagate. Are you proclaiming your misanthropic self-centred impotent stuff to be "Christ's program"?

@sonship said
If I had 20 lives to live I wouldn't want to waste even one of them occupied with the atheist aspirations you grasp at.

"Atheist aspirations"? You seem to be blanking out what I've actually said. Read my first post again.

@sonship said
You continue to repeat your "So Much Better Then Thou" self congratulations as much as it causes you to feel good about yourself.

If when you say that if you "...had 20 lives to live I wouldn't want to waste even one of them" ...occupied doing what I described Christians doing, based on their faith, in my reply to your OP, is that not simply your own case of "So Much Better Then Thou self-congratulations" that "causes you to feel good about yourself"?

@sonship said
By the same token when the Titanic is going down, going down with it washing the dirty dishes in the kitchen may be noble. But being "saved" or seeking to be, is no shame.

Such defeatism, pessimism, and impotence!

You could perhaps benefit from mixing with Christians whose faith doesn't turn them into self-centred misanthropists. Maybe some of their positivity might rub off on you.

@FMF

Read my first post again.

Why?
It seems that you just want to point at my navel hoping that I
will gaze at it. Then you can say "Aha! You're gazing at your navel."

We Christians learn to look "away unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith." (Heb. 12:2)

@sonship said
@FMF

Read my first post again.

Why?

Because everything you are saying supposedly in response to it suggest that you either did not read it or you did not understand it.

@fmf said
Because everything you are saying supposedly in response to it suggest that you either did not read it or you did not understand it.

Let's just say - I know the feeling.

(I may go over the whole thread latter)