Originally posted by whodey There are two issues here. You have the dictionary defined words and then you have words defined by religious texts that differ from those words. Which is correct?
You will find that dictionaries merely record the meanings of words as used by people at various times...Rather than competing with religious texts, they draw from them to establish the meanings of words...as we discovered when talking about the meaning of "faith", all the meanings of the word, contemporary and old-fashioned, are given, unless you are using an abridged dictionary. I think you are merely reserving the right to define words as you see fit.
Originally posted by ChronicLeaky Trinitarian scum! I think the definition thread should be written by two people, in acknowledgement of the inherent dualism of definitions: something is something and it isn't something else! I'll not agree to any further definitions until this is a dualistic thread!
Originally posted by whodey There are two issues here. You have the dictionary defined words and then you have words defined by religious texts that differ from those words. Which is correct?
The problem is that in my experience, religious texts do not define words but rather tend to leave them open to interpretation. Also, as they are often already translated from a previous language it makes it even harder. Several people on this site have even claimed that the meaning of some words/ passages only becomes clear whilst wearing a secret decoder ring, others claim that you must be a "True Christian" in order to understand certain words.
Many words are commonly believed to be well defined (such as God, soul etc) but aren't actually very specific at all. For example, you gave a definition for God but if I say that I know that God does not exist someone will immediately say that I require absolute knowledge to make such a claim as God might actually be a little green man on Jupiter.
Other words like "life" and "death" are used so flexibly by theists that the in order to establish a meaning you really need to ask for a definition on each and every use as even theists often don't agree on the meaning in a given context. The phrase "life after death" shows how inconsistent such usage is.
Originally posted by twhitehead The problem is that in my experience, religious texts do not define words but rather tend to leave them open to interpretation. Also, as they are often already translated from a previous language it makes it even harder. Several people on this site have even claimed that the meaning of some words/ passages only becomes clear whilst wearing a secret decode ...[text shortened]... n a given context. The phrase "life after death" shows how inconsistent such usage is.
True. I suppose the "decoder ring" for many Chrisitians is the view that one is spiritally blind to spiritual revelations until God himself reveals them to you. From my personal experience, this happened to me after my conversion. I tried telling this to someone on these boards and they took it to mean that others gave me those revelations rather than me pursuing them and finding them on my own after the viel had been lifted, so to speak. And I like your statement about how religious texts leave certain words open to interpretation. It seems as though I can read the same scripture over and over and over again for years until one day something clicks and I am given a whole new meaning on a matter. Does that mean my older interpretation is wrong? I so no. It simply means that I was given an additional meaning.
Originally posted by Starrman You are forgetting the mu value.
Have I ever told you the creation myth about the Mu-Men (controversially spelt "mumin like cumin, 'cause they're well spicy they are" )? It's the basis of the original Infuriation Conversation.
Originally posted by ChronicLeaky Have I ever told you the creation myth about the Mu-Men (controversially spelt "mumin like cumin, 'cause they're well spicy they are" )? It's the basis of the original Infuriation Conversation.
I remember you mentioning it before, but I was probably too drunk to really listen to you. I suggest getting more drunk tomorrow and trying again.
Originally posted by ChronicLeaky I think Nemesio and RBHILL should be the first members of an Academie Francaise-style body for determining what goes in this thread.
I can't f***ing believe you so blithely lumped me with RBHILL.
Originally posted by whodey There are two issues here. You have the dictionary defined words and then you have words defined by religious texts that differ from those words. Which is correct? Which definitioin should be given more weight? The Theist would argue that the religious definition should be given more weight, especially when discussing spiritual issues and the atheist who ...[text shortened]... ng? Well, meaning is purely subjective in nature in this regard. It differs upon whom you ask.
As Bill Clinton the Democrat standard bearer said .. "That depends on what "is" means.
Originally posted by twhitehead The problem is that in my experience, religious texts do not define words but rather tend to leave them open to interpretation. Also, as they are often already translated from a previous language it makes it even harder. Several people on this site have even claimed that the meaning of some words/ passages only becomes clear whilst wearing a secret decode ...[text shortened]... n a given context. The phrase "life after death" shows how inconsistent such usage is.
The problem is that in my experience, religious texts do not define words but rather tend to leave them open to interpretation.
Those of us who are open to interpretation don’t find it quite so problematic.
Also, as they are often already translated from a previous language it makes it even harder.
And, more often than not, the translations seem to be used to “close” interpretations that may be more open in the original.
And you are right about the word “God”—supernatural theists, pantheists, panentheists, monist/non-dualist—across religious traditions—all use the word. When I use the word, I never mean a being.
Definitions sticky
12 Apr '07 11:25
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