1. SubscriberProper Knob
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    05 Jul '12 16:26
    A continuation of a debate originating in another thread -

    RC - Indeed, he knows deep down that God is there, hes simply in denial.


    Why would i be in denial about Gods existence? Over to you Rob.
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    05 Jul '12 17:55
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    A continuation of a debate originating in another thread -

    RC - Indeed, he knows deep down that God is there, hes simply in denial.


    Why would i be in denial about Gods existence? Over to you Rob.
    I have no idea why you might deny the existence of God, you have no rational reason
    to deny the existence of God.
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    05 Jul '12 18:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have no idea why you might deny the existence of God, you have no rational reason
    to deny the existence of God.
    I agree in the sense that if we think the existence of God is provable OR disprovable, we don't fully appreciate the concept of God.
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    05 Jul '12 18:15
    Originally posted by JS357
    I agree in the sense that if we think the existence of God is provable OR disprovable, we don't fully appreciate the concept of God.
    my contention is that its a belief, like any other, in this instance, unsubstantiated, for it
    it cannot be proven or dis-proven as you rightly say. All that he can state is that
    appears to him that its improbable, which is simply not the same as saying, there is no
    God.
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    05 Jul '12 18:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    my contention is that its a belief, like any other, in this instance, unsubstantiated, for it
    it cannot be proven or dis-proven as you rightly say. All that he can state is that
    appears to him that its improbable, which is simply not the same as saying, there is no
    God.
    Bayesian theory says you're wrong.

    http://yudkowsky.net/rational/bayes

    YouTube

    YouTube
  6. SubscriberProper Knob
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    05 Jul '12 18:39
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    my contention is that its a belief, like any other, in this instance, unsubstantiated, for it
    it cannot be proven or dis-proven as you rightly say. All that he can state is that
    appears to him that its improbable, which is simply not the same as saying, there is no
    God.
    Okay fair enough i'll clarify. I believe there is no God, of course i don't know for certain, but i find it extremely doubtful that the God you believe in exists and as a result he will not be appearing on earth.
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    05 Jul '12 18:42
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Okay fair enough i'll clarify. I believe there is no God, of course i don't know for certain, but i find it extremely doubtful that the God you believe in exists and as a result he will not be appearing on earth.
    what forms the basis of your belief dear PK?
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    05 Jul '12 18:44
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    A continuation of a debate originating in another thread -

    RC - Indeed, he knows deep down that God is there, hes simply in denial.


    Why would i be in denial about Gods existence? Over to you Rob.
    You don't post the complete context of the post but I have seen this line of argument often
    enough to guess.


    It is incredibly insulting as well as stupidly ignorant to claim that atheists really do think that
    there is a god (and the specific one or ones the theist in question believes in) and that all
    we are doing is throwing a temper tantrum and being a rebel in not believing in that god.

    I don't quite know why some theists can't wrap their heads around the idea of non-belief
    but it does seem to elude [some of] them.


    One could postulate that deep down they know that god doesn't really exist and so are projecting
    this onto their opponents... However such a claim would [without justifying evidence] be just as
    unfounded and insulting as the theists claims.

    It would be in keeping though with their standard "I'm rubber your glue" school of playground debating
    tactics.
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    05 Jul '12 19:021 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have no idea why you might deny the existence of God, you have no rational reason
    to deny the existence of God.
    Just as you have no rational reason to deny the existence of Santa Claus, yet deny it you do, you are really in denial deep down.
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    05 Jul '12 21:17
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Just as you have no rational reason to deny the existence of Santa Claus, yet deny it you do, you are really in denial deep down.
    yes i have a rational basis for denying the existence of Santa clause, i caught my
    parents putting ot the presents one year, now where is your evidence for denying that
    God exists, hmmm?
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    05 Jul '12 21:28
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what forms the basis of your belief dear PK?
    The basis of my belief is an evaluation with my mind after looking at the evidence. As i said to the Christians who knocked on my door, 'Which God? Every culture and civilisations has had it's own deity or deities, they can't all be right'.

    In respect to this debate i'll refer to the literal Biblical God you believe in, and three points jump at me straight away -

    1.Adam & Eve - a little interpretation of that allegory is pure nonsense.
    2. The Flood - again, utter nonsense.
    3. Evolution - my acceptance of the evidence is in complete contradiction to what your interpretation of God would have us believe.

    That's for starters.
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    05 Jul '12 21:471 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes i have a rational basis for denying the existence of Santa clause, i caught my
    parents putting ot the presents one year, now where is your evidence for denying that
    God exists, hmmm?
    'Absence of evidence' IS 'evidence of absence' WHEN evidence would be expected if the proposition were correct.


    If god (your god) existed then there should be evidence for that gods existence.

    There is none.

    This is evidence for your gods non-existence.

    (note evidence =/= proof)

    Evidence in Bayesian terms is something that alters the probability of a proposition/hypothesis being correct.
    The larger the shift in probability the stronger the evidence.

    EDIT: Edited first sentence for clarity
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    05 Jul '12 21:574 edits
    Robbie stated that the belief that there is no God could be a superstitious reason.

    su·per·sti·tion; suprstn/ Show Spelled[soo-per-stish-uhn] Show IPA
    noun
    1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
    2. a system or collection of such beliefs.
    3. a custom or act based on such a belief.
    4. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, especially in connection with religion.
    5. any blindly accepted belief or notion.

    So with this first site I found it would seem Robbie is correct.
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    05 Jul '12 22:001 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    A continuation of a debate originating in another thread -

    RC - Indeed, he knows deep down that God is there, hes simply in denial.


    Why would i be in denial about Gods existence? Over to you Rob.
    Is there a reason you don't want there to be a god?
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    05 Jul '12 22:011 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    my contention is that its a belief, like any other, in this instance, unsubstantiated, for it
    it cannot be proven or dis-proven as you rightly say. All that he can state is that
    appears to him that its improbable, which is simply not the same as saying, there is no
    God.
    Well I suggest it is not a belief like any other. At the moment I am struggling to say in what way it is unlike any other belief, but it feels very different. And I think it should feel very different. It should feel so unlike any other belief that the normal reinforcers of belief, like evidence, are unimportant. The belief is just there. Although for me, it's not there.
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