Difficult Passages on Eternal Life

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Now this is interesting. I always fall back on God's character. Those that never heard will be judged on something else. I just rely on God being just and doing what is right...but I agree, there seems to be something missing to this puzzle..

"Those who know the law will be judged by the law, and those who do not know the law will be judged by the law written in thier hearts."

Originally posted by Pudgenik
"Those who know the law will be judged by the law, and those who do not know the law will be judged by the law written in thier hearts."

Excellent!

Originally posted by Pudgenik
i've always thought it interesting about the Sermon on the Mount, that Jesus stated, Blessed are the peacemakers, Blessed are, Blessed are, Blessed are, etc.. But He never says, Blessed are the peacemakers, but you need to KNOW me too. Jesus never says you need to Know Him (in your head), but you do need to know Him in your heart. "Where your heart is, there shall your treasure be too.".

A slight diversion from Matthew 25 which I am not nearly finished with yet:

The first words of Matthew chapter five are crucial in understanding for whom the words are intended.

Matthew 4:24 - 25 says "And the report concerning Him wnet out into all of Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those afflicted with various diseases and torments and those possessed by demons and epileptics anbd paralytics and He healed them.

And great crowds followed Him from Galilee and Decapolis and Jeruisalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordon. (vs.24,25)

Now here is a key verse - 5:1

And when He saw the crowds, He went up to the mountain. And after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. And opening His mouth He taught them, saying,

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens ... etc. etc. etc "

Great crowds followed Him. All kinds of beneficiaries of His acts of miracles and healings followed Him. But when He saw the crowds He went up higher. He went up to a mountain.

Great crowds followed Him up the mountain. Right?

Not really. It says - "And when He saw the crowds, He went up to the mountain. And after He sat down, His disciples came to Him."

The teaching to FOLLOW which many call "The Sermon on the Mount" or the Beatitudes were for His disciples rather than for the great crowds. Only those willing to be His disciples followed Him up to this higher place.

The new King called His followers by the seashore, but to give them this teaching He went up to the mountain. This teaching some teacher call "The Constitution of the Kingdom."

Jesus the King went up higher into a mountain in Matthew 5. This indicates that for the realization of the kingdom of the heavens, we must go higher with Jesus.

When He sat down on the mountain, the disciples, not the crowds, came to Him to be His audience. This was a teaching not to the large crowds but to those disciples willing to follow Him up higher.

I submit that this teaching or "Constitution of the Kingdom" is on a higher level than the general gospel message to believe in Christ. This is the teaching of HOW to go on, go higher in the kingdom life. This is the teaching to produce victorious overcomers for the reward of the millennial kingdom.

The following teaching is not the general invitation to be saved by believing. It is a message to produce victorious and prevailing kingdom people for His government both in this age and in the coming age of the millennium.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
"Those who know the law will be judged by the law, and those who do not know the law will be judged by the law written in thier hearts."

That is good. It is something in the human conscience.

These goats and sheep are judged according to what is called in Revelation 14 - "the eternal Gospel" . This eternal gospel is concerning God the Creator.

I say again, in Revelation 14 in the midst of the great tribulation an angel or angels supernaturally announce to the people on earth something called "the eternal gospel" .

This gospel - this "eternal Gospel" is something distinct from the gospel preached by the Christian church through the church age.

Let his idea sink in and I will elaborate. This is something not a whole lot of teachers see. This "eternal gospel" is preached from the air by angel/s during the activity of the Antichrist. And it concerns not the death and resurrection of Jesus but God the Creator of the universe.

Read this much and in the next post I'll try to get you all convinced.

"And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having an eternal gospel to announce to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,

SAYING with a loud voice, Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who has made heaven and earth and the sea and the springs of waters." (Revelation 14:6,7)

This "eternal gospel" preached from the air by an angel or more, is concerning God the Creator of heaven and earth.

Remember, Paul said that men are without an excuse to not believe in God because of the things CREATED (See Romans 1:18-23).

During the darkest times under the reign of the Antichrist at the end of this age, something called "the eternal gospel" will be announced supernaturally from the air by an angel.

This "eternal gospel" will be to counter the demand of Antichrist to worship him. The message of the eternal gospel preached by the angel concerns the coming judgment on man from God the Creator of the world.

The sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 are judged, I believe, related to their response to this eternal gospel concerning "Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who has made heaven and earth and teh sea and the springs of waters."

The eternal gospel, which will be preached during the time of the great tribulation (Matt. 24:31), differs from the gospel of grace (Acts 20:24) preached in the church age. The basic contents of the gospel of grace are repentance unto God and faith in the Lord Jesus (Acts 20:21) that men may be forgiven of their sins and be born again as the children of God (Luke 24:47; John 1:12); whereas the basic content of the eternal gospel is that men should fear God and worship God that them not be deceived and follow Antichrist but may be brought back to the genuine worship of God, who made heaven and earth (v.7).

Only man is privileged to preach the gospel of grace on the earth today (Acts 10:3-6). But the eternal gospel will be preached by the angel in the air at the close of this age. [Footnote 6(1), Recovery Version]

During the last three and one half years of this age Antichrist and his False Prophet will be deceiving millions on the earth to think that he is god.

The persecution of Christians left after the rapture and the persecution of Jews will be very intense.

It is from these terribly hounded and persecuted people who will not be permitted to buy or sell that the destitute are in desperate need of charitable treatment.

"For I was hungry and you gave Me something eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me a rink; I was a stranger and you took Me in, Naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.

Then the righteous [those who heeded the eternal gospel to fear God the Creator] will answer Him, saying, Lord, when have we seen You hungry and have fed You, or thirsty and have goven You a drink? And when have we seen You a stranger and have taken You in, or naked and have clothed You?

And the King will answer and say to them, truly I saw to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of THESE, the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me."

These sheep among the Gentiles, these nations heeded not the Antichrist but responded to the eternal gospel and their God given consciences.

The goats must be the ones who went along with Antichrist to persecute the Lord's brothers. Antichrist will not allow anyone not worshipping him and not having his mark on their foreheads or the number 666 on them, to buy or sell. The persecuted Christians and Jews will be in prison, sick, starving, ill-clothed, strangers and refugees trying to flee from the empire of the Antichrist.

The goats deceived to hate "religious" people whether Christians or Jews will not be sympathetic to the persecuted Lord's brothers -

"Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you did not give Me anything to eat; I was thirsty and you did not give Me a drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; naked and you did not clothe Me; sick and in prison, and you did not visit Me.

Then they also will answer, saying, Lord, when have we seen You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to You?

Then He will answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither have you done it to Me.

And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Under the great tribulation those who do not regard Antichrist as god will join him in harassing the persecuted Christians and Jews who do not have the mark of the Beast. They are not permitted to buy or sell or get food. And they will also be being martyred and thrown into prison for their not going along with 666.

They will be refugees fleeing from the realms of the Antichrist.

Atheism is on the rise in Europe. The resentment of Christians and theists in general is simmering to a hot flame throughout the world.

Be careful. After the Antichrist arises this intolerance against the Christians and the remnant of Jews will be hot. People will be swept up into the hysteria under the Antichrist to rid the earth of Christians.

This is now my speculation of which I am not sure. But perhaps in those days it will be hard to even get a Bible. Maybe the persecution will be so intense that the Bible is banned or burned by angry masses.

The persecution of the Christians left on the earth at that time and many devout Jews will be considered by the Lord Jesus the King as the mistreatment of Himself - "Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?"

Antichrist will be demanding that people voluntarily follow him. They will receive his mark on forehead. Maybe for men it will be on the forehead and for women on their hand. But people will be marked who belong to the Antichrist. They not listen to any gospel about God the Creator. Rather they will worship this man whom Satan has invested his full authority in.

The persecuted people of the Judeo / Christian tradition will be enemies of the state. But these are the Lord's brothers even down to the least of them. And the people alive and left after the great tribulation will be examined by Christ as to how they treated these persecuted brothers of the Lord Jesus.

Originally posted by sonship
A slight diversion from Matthew 25 which I am not nearly finished with yet:

The first words of Matthew chapter five are crucial in understanding for whom the words are intended.

Matthew 4:24 - 25 says [b]"And the report concerning Him wnet out into all of Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those afflicted with various diseases and to ...[text shortened]... ling kingdom people for His government both in this age and in the coming age of the millennium.

Not really. It says - "And when He saw the crowds, He went up to the mountain. And after He sat down, His disciples came to Him."

The teaching to FOLLOW which many call "The Sermon on the Mount" or the Beatitudes were for His disciples rather than for the great crowds. Only those willing to be His disciples followed Him up to this higher place.

The new King called His followers by the seashore, but to give them this teaching He went up to the mountain. This teaching some teacher call "The Constitution of the Kingdom."

Jesus the King went up higher into a mountain in Matthew 5. This indicates that for the realization of the kingdom of the heavens, we must go higher with Jesus.

When He sat down on the mountain, the disciples, not the crowds, came to Him to be His audience. This was a teaching not to the large crowds but to those disciples willing to follow Him up higher.

I submit that this teaching or "Constitution of the Kingdom" is on a higher level than the general gospel message to believe in Christ. This is the teaching of HOW to go on, go higher in the kingdom life. This is the teaching to produce victorious overcomers for the reward of the millennial kingdom.

The following teaching is not the general invitation to be saved by believing. It is a message to produce victorious and prevailing kingdom people for His government both in this age and in the coming age of the millennium.

Very interesting, I have to study this, but it is very interesting. I am immediately reminded of ..
1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified
NKJV

Which is where I believe a lot of Christians reside...

Originally posted by sonship
WHEN - [b]"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time ..."

This happens "at that time" when Jesus returns to the earth physically the second time. It is not a thousand years after that time I think. It is "at that time" .

It is conceivable that "at that time" is general and means o ...[text shortened]... e whole planet. And there also He will conduct a judgment from "the throne of His glory".[/b]

Your quotain of Zechariah is also found in Rev. The Six Seal, run and hide for the Great Day of the Lord is here. No one noticed the other five Seals. They have happened, and no one even payed attention.
Days are swiftly passing by,and time now must fly
Five seals have been broken, two are left unspoken.
Witnesses two does He send, to God's will thier knees bend
They walk among us unknown, this warning i give as the darkness has grown.

I draw attention now to two verses comparing the plan of God for those born again as sons of the Father and those who inherit the millennial kingdom as the sheep nations. There is a difference in how they were justified and there is a difference in God's plan for them.

1.) The sheep -

Matthew 25:34 - "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

Matt.25:46 " ... but the righteous into eternal life"

2.) The reborn sons of God -

Ephesians 1:4 - Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ ..."

Those sheep inherit the kingdom prepared FROM the foundation of the world.

Those sons of God reborn of the church are predestinated to sonship BEFORE the foundation of the world

Those SONS of God have eternal life enter into them to make them SONS of God with His life and nature.

Those SHEEP justified before the throne of His glory inherit the millennial kingdom unregenerated but are restored to be as Adam was from the foundation of the world - "very good".

After the judgment at Christ's throne of glory, the "sheep" will be transferred into the millennium to be the people under the kingly rule of Christ and the overcoming believers (Rev.2:26-27; 12:5; 20:4-6) and under the priestly ministry of the saved Jews (Zech. 8:20-23). In this way the "sheep" will inherit the (coming) kingdom. In the millennium there will be three sections:

1) the earth, where the blessing of God's creation will be, as mentioned in Gen. 1:28-30;

2.) the nation of Israel in Canaan, from the Nile to the Euphrates, from which the saved Jews will rule over the whole earth (Isa.60:10-12; Zech. 14:16-18); and

3.) the heavenly and spiritual section (1 Cor. 15:50-52), the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens, where the overcoming believers will enjoy the kingdom reward (5:20; 7:21).

The kingdom that the "sheep" will inherit consists of the first section.

The blessing of the first section in the millennium, the blessing of God's creation, was prepared for the "sheep" from the foundation of the world, whereas the blessing of the third section, the blessing of the heavenly and spiritual kingdom, was ordained for the believers before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:3-4). [Footnotes 34(1)(2), Matt. 25:34, Recovery Version]

Originally posted by checkbaiter

Very interesting, I have to study this, but it is very interesting. I am immediately reminded of ..
1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified
NKJV

Which is where I believe a lot of Christians reside....

If we include in Jesus Christ and Him crucified to mean not only His redemptive shedding of blood, but the denial of Himself that He could live by the Father, this really is what the teaching is Matthew 5 - 8 is all about.

Paul desiring to know nothing except Jesus Christ and Him crucified includes both the forgiveness and the putting to death of the old man to live in the new man.

Originally posted by sonship
During the darkest times under the reign of the Antichrist at the end of this age, something called [b]"the eternal gospel" will be announced supernaturally from the air by an angel.

This "eternal gospel" will be to counter the demand of Antichrist to worship him. The message of the eternal gospel preached by the angel concerns the coming jud ...[text shortened]... by the angel in the air at the close of this age. [Footnote 6(1), Recovery Version] [/quote][/b]

Sonship, again i admire your passion, however i disagree with your conclusions. You take the scripture too litteral. Every word, every vesre has a different meaning to you. Example, the eternal gospel IS the bible we all read. It is the Living Word, It IS Jesus alive in its pages, if we read and Recieve Him. The book itself is not God or a god, but in receaving the words into your heart, you recieve Christ into your heart.

Originally posted by sonship
A slight diversion from Matthew 25 which I am not nearly finished with yet:

The first words of Matthew chapter five are crucial in understanding for whom the words are intended.

Matthew 4:24 - 25 says [b]"And the report concerning Him wnet out into all of Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those afflicted with various diseases and to ...[text shortened]... ling kingdom people for His government both in this age and in the coming age of the millennium.

Sonship, understand i am not attacking you.
Although, the bible has been written, translated, and spoken over thousands of years, it is also ment for us today. It is Jesus, the living word. The same Christ that walked with peter, james and john. The same God that spoke with moses, enoc, and adam. In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and is God.
So when we read the Sermon on the Mount, it is ment for us too.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Sonship, understand i am not attacking you.
Although, the bible has been written, translated, and spoken over thousands of years, it is also ment for us today. It is Jesus, the living word. The same Christ that walked with peter, james and john. The same God that spoke with moses, enoc, and adam. In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and is God.
So when we read the Sermon on the Mount, it is ment for us too.

Further proof that Jaywill/Sonship is wrong about his conclusion that the Sermon on the Mount was not spoken to the multitudes but only to the disciples is the verse at the end of the Sermon:

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

The people.. not just the disciples. The sermon applies to all people who want to follow Christ.

This is the typical modus operandi of sonship. He chooses a course of discussion starting off with some assumptions which automatically means that other possiblities are sidelined and then concludes that he is correct.