1. Standard membersonship
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    15 May '17 23:491 edit
    Does this passage instruct anyone definitely to NOT call on the name of the Lord Jesus ?

    Luke 6:46

    " And why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say ? "


    Does this passage instruct me to not call " Lord Jesus, O Lord Jesus " ?

    The verse is only 17 words. Where is the part that says to not call out to the Lord Jesus, calling Him by name?

    Where in these 17 words does Jesus teach against calling Him "Lord, Lord Jesus." ?

    To begin with the verse is a QUESTION . Of course there is a strong exhortation embodied in the question. That is WHY do I call Him Lord and not do the things the Lord says to me.

    The verse does not teach people to not call on the name of the Lord Jesus. The essence of the verse is that while calling the Lord Jesus we should live as if He is what He is to us - the Lord. This means following what He says.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    15 May '17 23:57
    Does this passage teach me that as a Christian I should NOT call on the name of the Lord Jesus ?

    Matt. 7:21,-23

    "Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power?

    And then i will declare to them: I never knew you, Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."


    Where in this passage is the charge not to call on the name of the Lord Jesus ?
    where is the clear and unambiguous exhortation here NOT to call out with your mouth to the Lord Jesus ?

    It is not there. This verse and the previous one I mentioned in Luke 6:46 really teach the same thing. And neither is a command or an instruction discouraging anyone from calling out to the Lord Jesus in order to contact and experience for obedience the Lord Jesus.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    16 May '17 00:091 edit
    So I call upon the name of the Lord and have some failure afterwards.
    Does this mean I should STOP my calling on the name of the Lord Jesus ?
    I don't see that anywhere in the Bible.

    You know righteous man falls down seven times and rises up and keeps on going. That's what the word says.

    Proverbs 24:16

    " For a righteous man falls seven times and rises up again, but the wicked are overthrown by calamity."


    So callers on the name of the Lord Jesus need not STOP calling because they had a falling. Rather like the righteous man in this Proverb, they just GET UP and keep going. And they may keep calling on the name of the Lord.

    It is good to call "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus I call on you with my mouth. Lord Jesus I open my heart to You Lord."

    And if you fall, as Christians all will sometimes have a failure, we get up, take the blood of Christ and keep on our spiritual walk.

    Do come forward to God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus with a big opening of your heart to Him. And do it again.

    David called on God every day - Psalm 88:9

    "My eye wastes away at the affliction; I have CALLED out to You, O Jehovah, EVERY DAY;

    I have spread out my hands to You."


    This is a man whose whole soul is exercised to insist upon coming forward to contact God. And so we may call daily - O Lord Jesus I LOVE You Lord. O Lord Jesus."
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    16 May '17 00:58
    Originally posted by sonship
    Does this passage instruct anyone definitely to NOT call on the name of the Lord Jesus ?
    Has anyone suggested that it does?

    Oh dear. Have you started a whole thread with some kind of self-pitying, miffed straw man?
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 May '17 03:131 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Has anyone suggested that it does?

    Oh dear. Have you started a whole thread with some kind of self-pitying, miffed straw man?
    Whats bugging him is a passage i quoted where Christ appears to be saying that a foolish man will only say Lord Lord but the wise man follows his commandments. I dont think he likes tbe teachings of Christ.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    16 May '17 09:40
    Do call on the Lord Jesus is an encouragement to use your mouth along with your whole being to come forward to God.

    it is not "mouth-worship". What Christ said was that the Father seeks such to worship Him in spirit and in truthfulness.

    "In spirit" there means in the human spirit, the deepest part of us. Paul served God in his spirit. Notice that he writes that he served God in his spirit here.

    " For God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit in the gospel of His Son ..." (Rom. 1:9a)


    It is a great discovery to realize that our mouth can so connect with our innermost being - OUR spirit.

    One reason an audible calling out to Jesus is effective at ANY stage of spiritual growth, is because the Holy Spirit bears witness deep within to that union of the believer in an "organic" and family intimacy with God.

    " ... a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba Father!

    The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:15b,16)


    Notice that in this passage it is the ones in the maturity of being LED by the Holy Spirit who may utter worship with their mouths in calling " Abba Father " . We can see this by adding the previous verse 14 to the rest of what was quoted.

    "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

    For you have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba, Father!

    The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (vs. 14-16)


    Paul includes himself - "our spirit that WE are children of God".

    Notice also that the "sons" are well on their way to maturing to the next level - heirs. That means children of God grow up to be sons of God, being led by the Holy Spirit, who in turn will mature into heirs of God and "joint heirs with Christ".

    A child king must mature. When he grows up he can assume the heir-ship of his position.
    That is the same thought here in Romans. The child born of God learns to be led by God. And being led by God she or he grows up to be an heir ready to inherit the vast inheritance of being a co-reigning king with Christ.

    And in the growing stage the worship in spirit and with the mouth is evident.

    See the connection and the progress.

    " ... but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba, Father!
    The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

    And if children, heirs also; on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him. (vs. 15c-17)


    The uttering of "Abba, Father" or the uttering of "Lord JESUS! O Lord Jesus!" are of the same nature. We are calling on God.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    16 May '17 09:43
    Originally posted by sonship
    it is not "mouth-worship". What Christ said was that the Father seeks such to worship Him in spirit and in truthfulness.
    My understanding of the term "mouth-worship" is that it refers to Christians talking the talk but not - or seemingly hardly ever - preaching that one has to walk the walk too.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 May '17 11:513 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    My understanding of the term "mouth-worship" is that it refers to Christians talking the talk but not - or seemingly hardly ever - preaching that one has to walk the walk too.
    The passage he is carrying on about contains a clear example from Christ on what constitutes mouth worship and its end result.

    Man #1 says Lord Lord and does nothing else
    Man #2 does the will of God
    The one who enters the Kingdom of God is Man #2
    Jesus will declare that he does not know Man #1.
    The Bible so often says that Jesus and God knows who follows the commandments and will dwell with these people. These are the children / sons of God.

    Jesus continues the story. On the day of judgement those in #1 will proclaim their faith and speak of their good works. But these are not good works which are required by Christ. Casting out devils and stuff along those lines is not good works. They are therefore disobedient to the commandments of Christ. They are mouth worshipers and they will be destroyed.

    Jesus continues further .. therefore he says, those who hear him and do his commandments are wise and those who do not are foolish.

    This story is repeated in many ways by all of the Apostles. James speaks of dead faith living faith. Paul speaks of meat and milk, that doers will enter the Kingdom of God.

    Many Christians miss it because their heart is hardened against the teachings of Christ. They make ridiculous and unbiblical statements contrary to Christ and talk the foolishness you see being spoken around here about faith alone is required and nothing else, that those with faith always do good works. The bible says no such thing and those who preach such things are condemning themselves.
  9. Standard memberRBHILL
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    16 May '17 14:351 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The passage he is carrying on about contains a clear example from Christ on what constitutes mouth worship and its end result.

    Man #1 says Lord Lord and does nothing else
    Man #2 does the will of God
    The one who enters the Kingdom of God is Man #2
    Jesus will declare that he does not know Man #1.
    The Bible so often says that Jesus and God knows who fol ...[text shortened]... works. The bible says no such thing and those who preach such things are condemning themselves.
    You have to do mouth worship before coming to Jesus. You can't simply do action without coming to Jesus. Action without Jesus is nothing.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 May '17 17:01
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    You have to do mouth worship before coming to Jesus. You can't simply do action without coming to Jesus. Action without Jesus is nothing.
    So Faith alone cannot save you then?
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    16 May '17 17:11
    Originally posted by sonship
    Does this passage teach me that as a Christian I should NOT call on the name of the Lord Jesus ?

    [b]Matt. 7:21,-23


    [quote] "Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your ...[text shortened]... m calling out to the Lord Jesus in order to contact and experience for obedience the Lord Jesus.
    Since you don't seem to understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 7, I'll lay it out for you as simply as possible:

    Jesus says that those who do not do " the will of My Father who is in the heavens", i.e., those who are " workers of lawlessness", i.e., those who continue to sin; will NOT "enter into the kingdom of the heavens". That for them saying "Lord, Lord" is meaningless to Him. So meaningless in fact that Jesus will say to them, " I never knew you, Depart from me".
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 May '17 17:25
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Since you don't seem to understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 7, I'll lay it out for you as simply as possible:

    Jesus says that those who do not do " the will of My Father who is in the heavens", i.e., those who are " workers of lawlessness", i.e., those who continue to sin; will NOT "enter into the kingdom of the heavens". That for them saying " ...[text shortened]... to Him. So meaningless in fact that Jesus will say to them, " I never knew you, Depart from me".
    "But .. but .. I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, .."

    😀
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    16 May '17 18:02
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    "But .. but .. I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, .."

    😀
    Of course, as you know, Jesus had something to say about that as well:

    John 14
    21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
    23...“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
    24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...


    Despite the above, many insist that Jesus / God / the Holy Spirit abides in them, that they have a "relationship" with Him even though they do not "keep [His] words", i.e., they continue to sin.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 May '17 18:08
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Of course, as you know, Jesus had something to say about that as well:

    [quote]John 14
    21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
    23...“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come ...[text shortened]... "relationship" with Him even though they do not "keep [His] words", i.e., they continue to sin.
    Thats correct. It is a very stupid human that can be fooled with empty words. We can spot lying spouses and fake friends but yet some believe they can fool God with deceitful words.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    16 May '17 19:553 edits
    To be saved initially, call on the name of the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead.

    Now that you are eternally redeemed you need to learn to live another way. That is by further depending on Jesus Christ to be everything you need - the all-sufficient grace. For this calling on the Lord for specifics is very effective.

    IE. "Lord Jesus, I am about to be tempted again, O Lord Jesus I love You."

    While someone may despise this as "mouth-worship" it is one of many good ways to set the mind on the spirit where divine life and peace are found and grace empowers you to live Christ.

    Timothy was a co-worker with the Apostle Paul, even appointing overseers of local churches. I think we can rest assured that he was a spiritually mature disciple. Paul exhorts him to be with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    " But flee youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart." (2 Tim. 2:22)


    Now we have something of a "chicken and egg" situation. Does the Apostle Paul mean:

    1.) Wait until you HAVE a pure heart towards God and THEN call on the Lord Jesus ?

    2.) Call on the Lord Jesus in order to obtain a pure heart towards God ?

    I don't know why a Christian should have to choose between the two beliefs as if there is some dichotomy. Both are appropriate.

    1.) Through obedience to the Lord's leading the heart is purified resulting in one calling more on the Lord Jesus.

    2.) In order to turn the heart towards God FOR singleness and purity, one CALLS on the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Why insist that it has to be one and not the other. We Christians need to avail ourselves of all the good healthy instruction we can get.

    I CALL on the Lord - "O Lord Jesus" to cause my heart to be pure and single, focused and calibrated towards God.

    I CALL on the Lord - "O Lord Jesus, I love You Lord!" because I enjoy the wonderful result of doing His will. My love is increased. And I overflow with appreciation by calling on the Lord Jesus.

    Furthermore, I delight to be with others who are having the same experiences. The two effects work as a wonderful cycle.

    I obey - I call. I call - I obey.
    I obey more and so love more and speak out to the Lord Jesus more.
    I speak out to the Lord Jesus for strength, fellowship, grace, empowering THAT I may go His way more.

    " ... pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart." (See 2 Timothy 4:22)
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