Does atheism require faith?

Originally posted by rwingett
Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief. It affirms nothing.

Well, I found at least one website that will agree with your assessment of a negatively-held position. To wit:

"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html#atheisms

It's a clever twist of logic, that.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Well, I found at least one website that will agree with your assessment of a negatively-held position. To wit:

"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html#atheisms

It's a clever twist of logic, that.

Ah, you have to realise that the statements,

"I do not believe god exists" and

"I believe god does not exist" are quite, quite different.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Ah, you have to realise that the statements,

"I do not believe god exists" and

"I believe god does not exist" are quite, quite different.

You have to realize that:

"It affirms nothing"

is a nonsense sentence.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You have to realize that:

"It affirms nothing"

is a nonsense sentence.

I'd have to disagree. Atheism is a disbelief, a lack of belief.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I'd have to disagree. Atheism is a disbelief, a lack of belief.

Yes, disbelief is faith in reverse. It is faith in the negative rather than the positive. Faith requires hope as where disbelief requires dispair. Disbelief says that there is no God and we will all perish. Faith says that we have a loving creator who wants to save us. Disbelief says that there is no hope for you in the end and you are without hope of any possibly needed supernatural intervention. Faith says that with God all things are possible.

This is one of the reasons I started this thread. It was to show that atheism is in fact a belief system much like Christianity, only in reverse. Athists hate the comparison and say that there is no similarity due to the fact they don't ever mention the "G" word. My only question is why people seem to love embracing such negativity. I think it much healthier to have a positive outlook on life, and I think that faith enables us to acheive this goal much easier than with disbeleif.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Originally posted by Halitose
Didn't Kant assert in his Critique of Practical Reason that morality requires a belief in the existence of God, freedom, and immortality, because without this said existence there can be no morality?

bbar's response:
"No he didn't."

And, as has been explained to you, Kant did not say there could be no morality without God. God was "postulated" by Kant to explain the lack of match-up in our world between virtuous action and happiness. And at any rate, this sits uncomfortably with most Kant scholars.

Ironically, when you say: 'You have to realize that "It affirms nothing" is a nonsense sentence', you seem to be making a mistake that Kant was among the first to identify...

Originally posted by whodey
Yes, disbelief is faith in reverse. It is faith in the negative rather than the positive. Faith requires hope as where disbelief requires dispair. Disbelief says that there is no God and we will all perish. Faith says that we have a loving creator who wants to save us. Disbelief says that there is no hope for you in the end and you are without hope of an ...[text shortened]... life, and I think that faith enables us to acheive this goal much easier than with disbeleif.

No you've missed the point. Setting aside arguments about the existence or otherwise of an historical Christ, when in the bible Jesus says "Believe in me" he wasn't asking people to start deciding that he existed, after all he was standing in front of them. Having faith is not to do with the existence argument, most people believed in the supernatural for most of human history as there was then no other more plausible hypothesis, it is more to do with believing that God is on your side.

Disbelief is not faith in reverse, faith in reverse would more be to agree with the existence of God, but think he was out to get you; which on the basis of the evidence available ...

While you may get the pedantry prize from your local universities logic department for the statement that going round firmly believing in the non-existence of God is as much a baseless position as believing in one, you won't get a prize for going on to say that not believing in a God is negative. What you've done is say I believe X is true, so anyone who disagrees with me and believes X is false is negative, which is something of an egocentric position on the whole.

Originally posted by Conrau K
And what everyone else is lying?
Heres why atheists dont believe in God:
Why not believe in unicorns? Elves? Invisible unicorns or Invisible elves?

Its called Occams Razor. Look it up. If we accept Gods existence, why not accept every other conceivable thing's existence?

This argument is based on the idea that there is no evidence for the existence of God. The fact that there is some evidence (eg - spiritual experiences , answered prayer/jungian Synchronicity , existence of morality , healings etc) puts God in a different catagory from Unicorns. You may dispute the interpretation of this evidence but it is evidence nevertheless.For example, I have met no-one who has had an experience of a Unicorn but many who have had experience of God. Therefore I can believe in God but not have to believe in Unicorns. Unless you have evidence for them that is....?

Originally posted by knightmeister
This argument is based on the idea that there is no evidence for the existence of God. The fact that there is some evidence (eg - spiritual experiences , answered prayer/jungian Synchronicity , existence of morality , healings etc) puts God in a different catagory from Unicorns. You may dispute the interpretation of this evidence but it is evidence nev ...[text shortened]... lieve in God but not have to believe in Unicorns. Unless you have evidence for them that is....?

i ahev had an experience with unicorns that were invisible. therefore they are real.

yeah right.

Originally posted by DeepThought
No you've missed the point. Setting aside arguments about the existence or otherwise of an historical Christ, when in the bible Jesus says "Believe in me" he wasn't asking people to start deciding that he existed, after all he was standing in front of them. Having faith is not to do with the existence argument, most people believed in the supernatural elieves X is false is negative, which is something of an egocentric position on the whole.

Disbeleif is disbeleif whether you are disputing ones existence or their words or their stated intentions. I don't see how you can color disbeleif in so many different shades of gray? As far as faith being a positive infuence in one's psyche, I don't know how you can argue it is not? Granted, you may be able to maintain a positive outlook in placing your faith in other things or gods. THink about how miserable your life would be if you could no longer place your faith in anything. Relationships with people would suffer, and you would probably end up fearing and questioning everyone and everything you encounter.

By the way, thanks for the pedantry prize. I will place it next to my oscar I earned in my other thread.

Originally posted by whodey
Disbeleif is disbeleif whether you are disputing ones existence or their words or their stated intentions. I don't see how you can color disbeleif in so many different shades of gray? As far as faith being a positive infuence in one's psyche, I don't know how you can argue it is not? Granted, you may be able to maintain a positive outlook in placing your f ...[text shortened]... thanks for the pedantry prize. I will place it next to my oscar I earned in my other thread.

I don't place my faith in anything particularly, the point I was making is that disbelief doesn't automatically lead to despair. I don't believe in God, but on the other hand I don't believe in the Devil either.

How can I argue that faith is not a positive influence on one's psyche? Well I don't believe I was, merely that the opposite is not true, that lack of faith is not automatically a negative influence. I could point to potential problems with schizophrenia, and if you think God exists, but is a malevolent force, that 'faith' would be crushing. This I think is the point I was trying to make. You are confusing two things, the existence argument and the notion that God (once shown to exist) is good.

Originally posted by whodey
Yes, disbelief is faith in reverse. It is faith in the negative rather than the positive. Faith requires hope as where disbelief requires dispair. Disbelief says that there is no God and we will all perish. Faith says that we have a loving creator who wants to save us. Disbelief says that there is no hope for you in the end and you are without hope of an ...[text shortened]... life, and I think that faith enables us to acheive this goal much easier than with disbeleif.

What a load of crap.

-1 is the opposite of 1. Atheism is the spiritual equivalent of zero.

Originally posted by knightmeister
This argument is based on the idea that there is no evidence for the existence of God. The fact that there is some evidence (eg - spiritual experiences , answered prayer/jungian Synchronicity , existence of morality , healings etc) puts God in a different catagory from Unicorns. You may dispute the interpretation of this evidence but it is evidence nev ...[text shortened]... lieve in God but not have to believe in Unicorns. Unless you have evidence for them that is....?

Evidence for God? Which God? And what evidence? How do you know its not evidence of an invisible unicorn conspiring against humanity through religion?

Originally posted by whodey
Yes, disbelief is faith in reverse. It is faith in the negative rather than the positive. Faith requires hope as where disbelief requires dispair. Disbelief says that there is no God and we will all perish. Faith says that we have a loving creator who wants to save us. Disbelief says that there is no hope for you in the end and you are without hope of an ...[text shortened]... son and say that there is no similarity due to the fact they don't ever mention the "G" word.

I notice your assumption throughout this post that the only possible faith is Christianity. How would your statements apply to muslims or bhudists? What about people who believe in multiple gods?
Do you realise that those who does not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster are also lacking in faith?

My only question is why people seem to love embracing such negativity. I think it much healthier to have a positive outlook on life, and I think that faith enables us to acheive this goal much easier than with disbeleif.
I have heard simmilar arguements from Christians before. It makes me think your faith is a little weak if its is a self delusion entirely for the purpose of giving yourself a positive outlook on life.

Originally posted by knightmeister
This argument is based on the idea that there is no evidence for the existence of God. The fact that there is some evidence (eg - spiritual experiences , answered prayer/jungian Synchronicity , existence of morality , healings etc) puts God in a different catagory from Unicorns. You may dispute the interpretation of this evidence but it is evidence nev ...[text shortened]... lieve in God but not have to believe in Unicorns. Unless you have evidence for them that is....?

All those items of "evidence" you noted can be explained in other ways. Then all you have is a series of coincidences that you choose to attribute to god, but no evidence whatsoever. It could just as easily all be the work of the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER, and there'd be no way you could tell the difference.