1. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 May '05 11:55
    Probably every textbook in use in America which in any way deals with evolutionary subjects includes a presentation of the "Geologic Column," or the "Geologic Time Scale" as it is sometimes called. This vertical display of the various geologic eras, periods, and epochs supposedly illustrates the nature of the fossil record, with recent fossils on the top and older ones on the bottom. By following the fossils from bottom to top, one can "see" evolution.

    Single-celled organisms evolve into marine invertebrates, which in turn evolve into fish. The fish eventually produce amphibians and then reptiles, which give way to birds and mammals and finally man. Surely, evolution is true if the fossils are arranged in such an order.

    Furthermore, each basic body style (phylum) has been present right from the start. In the lowest level of abundant multi-celled organisms, the Cambrian Period, fossils of each phylum has been found, including vertebrates! Many fossil organisms are found which have gone extinct, but no new body plans from the start. Did evolution stop at the start?

    Among the vertebrates, a case can be made for some change. Fish fossils are found in the Cambrian and people are not. However, people are vertebrates, as are dinosaurs and birds. In many ways, our skeletal features are comparable to that of a fish. We are certainly a whole lot more like a fish than we are to a coral, a clam, or a jellyfish.

    In addition, when you look at the geologic column in the textbook you will notice that is mainly a statement of vertebrate evolution, it has very little to say about the other fossil types. However, it is very constructive to look at all the fossils and then conclude.

    As it turns out, 95% of all fossils are shallow marine invertebrates, mostly shellfish. For instance, clams are found in the bottom layer, the top layer, and every layer in between. There are many different varieties of clams, but clams are in every layer and are still alive today. There is no evolution, just clams! The same could be said for corals, jellyfish, and many others. The fossil record documents primarily marine organisms buried in marine sediments, which (as discussed elsewhere) were catastrophically deposited.

    Of the 5% remaining fossils, 95% of them are algae and plant fossils (4.75% of the total). In that left over 5% of the 5%, insects and all other invertebrates make up 95% (0.2375 % of the total). **

    All of the vertebrate fossils considered together, (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals), comprise only 0.0125% of the entire fossil record, and only 1% of these, or .000125% of the total, consist of more than a single bone! Almost all of them come from the Ice Age. Surely, the vertebrate fossil record is far from complete.

    Where we have a good record, no evolution can be seen. For the very scanty vertebrate record, an evolutionary story can be told, but the facts do not support it, and certainly do not prove it.

    *Dr. John Morris is the President of ICR.

    ** Paleontologist Dr. Kurt Wise provided these figures.

    http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-067b.htm
  2. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    30 May '05 12:391 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Probably every textbook in use in America which in any way deals with evolutionary subjects includes a presentation of the "Geologic Column," or the "Geologic Time Scale" as it is sometimes called. This vertical display of the various ...[text shortened]... vided these figures.

    http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-067b.htm
    "The data of geology, in our view, should be interpreted in light of the Scripture, rather than distorting Scripture to accommodate current geological philosophy." (Morris and Morris, 1989)

    Kurt Wise was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist family in rural Illinois and accepted flood geology as a teenager while attending a conference for Christian youth run by Bob Jones University. He graduated from University of Chicago with honors in geophysical sciences before going on to Harvard and his Ph.D. with Stephen J. Gould. He has been the focus of a number of articles in the popular press (Campbell and Scroggins, 1995, and Hitt, 1996) and currently teaches at the fundamentalist William Jennings Bryan College in Tennessee near the site of the Scopes trial. He minces no words about his scientific philosophy and agenda. "I intend to replace the evolutionary tree with the creationist orchard, separately created, separately planted by God." (Hitt, 1996)

    Yup real objective psuedo-scientic ... that the best you can come up with?



    A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale
    (1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)
    Day 1 - Space, light & dark, earth materials.
    Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
    Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
    Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
    Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
    Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
    Day 7 - Day of rest.
    1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." Laws of science invalid.
    (2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.
    (3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
    water. No rain, no ocean basins.
    (4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.
    (5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
    peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
    the "fall."
    (6) Human life spans up to 900 years.
    (7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

    Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"

    Rain - 40 days
    (8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
    in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
    middle flood-time.
    (9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
    half a mile during single year.
    (10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
    swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.
    (11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
    seawater during (!) the flood.

    Flood - about 250 days.
    (12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
    average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood year.
    (13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
    formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile per
    hour.
    (14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
    on the newly opened ocean floors.
    (15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
    enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end of
    flood year.

    Final Retreat - ? 100 days ?
    (16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
    in time for grounding of the Ark.
    (17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
    of another, all grown during single year.
    (18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
    de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
    steep, mile-high cliffs.

    Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal (?) science to
    Present
    (19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
    communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
    (Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
    drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)
    (20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
    then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
    (Velikovsky)
    (21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
    Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
    separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick soil zones
    between some advances are wrong.
    (22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
    present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of thermal
    physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.
    (23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
    hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches per
    year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere chance.
    (24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
    1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present measured
    rates of inches per century.


    some differences
    Biblical Order Evolutionary Order

    Earth before sun and stars >>> Sun and stars before Earth
    First life forms are plants >>> First life forms are marine organisms
    Fruit trees before fish >>> Fish before fruit trees
    Fish before insects >>> Insects before fish
    Land vegetation before sun >>> Sun before land plants
    Birds before land reptiles >>> Reptiles before birds
    Man as the cause of death >>> Death precedes man

    http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/wise.htm

    Your junk scientists are LYING to you.
  3. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 May '05 12:53
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    "The data of geology, in our view, should be interpreted in light of the Scripture, rather than distorting Scripture to accommodate current geological philosophy." (Morris and Morris, 1989)

    Kurt Wise was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist family in rural Illinois and accepted flood geology as a teenager while attending a conference for Christian yout ...[text shortened]... edes man

    http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/wise.htm

    Your junk scientists are LYING to you.
    Kindly open your own threads instead of posting stuff which is totally irrelevant on my thread. I cannot see how your post has anything to do with whether the geologic column proves evolution.
  4. Copenhagen
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    30 May '05 13:01
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Kindly open your own threads instead of posting stuff which is totally irrelevant on my thread. I cannot see how your post has anything to do with whether the geologic column proves evolution.
    frogstomp's post is very relevant to your claim. How else will you explain the geological column?
  5. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 May '05 13:19
    Originally posted by nickybutt
    frogstomp's post is very relevant to your claim. How else will you explain the geological column?
    As I did in my first post.
  6. Copenhagen
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    30 May '05 13:26
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    As I did in my first post.
    You explained nothing, you merely critized. Please explain the problems frogstomp showed in his thread.
  7. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    30 May '05 13:56
    Originally posted by nickybutt
    frogstomp's post is very relevant to your claim. How else will you explain the geological column?
    It's time they put up or shut-up .
    Sick and tired of hearing science trashed by these god freaks and for what? so they can cling to "borrowed" Sumerian mythology , barbaric leaders attributing genocidal act to being told to by god and other offenses against God and Man.

  8. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 May '05 14:00
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    It's time they put up or shut-up .
    Sick and tired of hearing science trashed by these god freaks and for what? so they can cling to "borrowed" Sumerian mythology , barbaric leaders attributing genocidal act to being told to by god and other offenses against God and Man.

    It might not surprise you that almost every major branch of science was developed by a Bible believing Christian. Unfornunately the entire enterprise was hijacked by a bunch of pseudo-scientists like yourself.
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    30 May '05 14:06
    You are right dj2becker

    The old age of Earth and uniformitarianism were accepted by Christian Geologists in the 1700s.

  10. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    30 May '05 14:12
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    It might not surprise you that almost every major branch of science was developed by a Bible believing Christian. Unfornunately the entire enterprise was hijacked by a bunch of pseudo-scientists like yourself.
    You really are deranged if you actually think that.

    Science has outgrown the preconceptions of the early scientists.
    And stick that attempted turnaround insult back on the second day where the sun don't shine and put the rest of your garbage there with it.



  11. Standard memberRedmike
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    30 May '05 16:47
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    It might not surprise you that almost every major branch of science was developed by a Bible believing Christian. Unfornunately the entire enterprise was hijacked by a bunch of pseudo-scientists like yourself.
    You've spouted this nonsense before, and got shot down before.
    One question, when did Einstein's conversion to christianity occur?
  12. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 May '05 17:50
    Originally posted by Redmike
    You've spouted this nonsense before, and got shot down before.
    One question, when did Einstein's conversion to christianity occur?
    Did Einstein develop all the major branches of science?
  13. Copenhagen
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    30 May '05 18:37
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Did Einstein develop all the major branches of science?
    Once again you dodge a question. Go back to frogstomp's post and reply it.
  14. Standard memberDaemon Sin
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    30 May '05 19:31
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    It might not surprise you that almost every major branch of science was developed by a Bible believing Christian. Unfornunately the entire enterprise was hijacked by a bunch of pseudo-scientists like yourself.
    Okay then, explain the rational behind the churches approach to Galileo's theory (and thereafter proof) that the earth was round.

    Seems to me like Galileo found a few holes in the sketchy Christian teachings of that time so the Pope had him killed!
  15. Standard membertelerion
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    30 May '05 20:49
    Originally posted by nickybutt
    Once again you dodge a question. Go back to frogstomp's post and reply it.
    He can't. Unfortunately for him, the creationists he parrots haven't been able to answer these questions yet. In fact, they don't have any testable theory. Given dj2 can't think for himself on this subject, this leaves him a quandry. All he can do is ignore or dodge the question, and go back to bashing evolution.

    Creationists have got nuttin.
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