Eleven Reasons for Assurance of Salvation

@sonship said
I will freely refer to good teachings that have been a benefit to Christians and seeking people.

Divegeester can have diaper rashes all month long because I pass on what I learned from others without at every turn crediting them.

The more significant point is that he agrees with assurance of salvation.

It's not about crediting your source 'at every turn.'

But when you create a thread will 11 points and post them individually in bulk, you 'are' required to make clear it is not your own work and to say where you got them from.

@divegeester

You’re just sucking up the glory for yourself by pretending that this stuff is your own ministry, it isn’t.

You are an idol worshiper. Your idol is human originality. You care more for petty arguments about human originality then for truth.

All your picky, picky arguing about giving credit is just exposing your idol and childish toy of human originality. Your idol has a higher place in your heart then the truth from God.

Shame on you for your idolatry, masquerading here as a concern for copyright.

@sonship said
@divegeester

You’re just sucking up the glory for yourself by pretending that this stuff is your own ministry, it isn’t.

You are an idol worshiper. Your idol is human originality. You care more for petty arguments about human originality then for truth.

All your picky, picky arguing about giving credit is just exposing your idol and childis ...[text shortened]... e truth from God.

Shame on you for your idolatry, masquerading here as a concern for copyright.

All this, just to defend your right to plagiarize the work of others and pass it off as your own.

Shameful.

@sonship said
Shame on you for your idolatry, masquerading here as a concern for copyright.

The issue here is not "idolatry". Your vanity is grasping at straws. The issue is not anyone's "concern for copyright", as has been explained to you umpteen times. Your vanity has got you wriggling and squirming and talking twaddle. No. The issue is your dishonest and narcissistic behaviour.

@rajk999 said
I have already outwitted you. Anyone who ignores your Satanic doctrine which preaches disobedience to the commandments is way ahead of you.

Projecting your preconceived notions places you far behind.

No one is "preaching disobedience to the commandments".

You remind me of what Paul said in 1 Timothy 5-7.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

You're nothing more than the forum hateful blabber mouth.

-Removed-

Then why do you do it?

-Removed-

But you claim to be a Christian, yet you engage with sonship, but not about the points he makes! Not unlike the unbelievers in which you align yourself point for point.

It obviously gets to you that sonship seeks to glorify God in this forum, but you seek the approval of the naysayers by joining them in their condemnations, while hypocritically not engaging them with regards to their denunciations of Christ, His church and the Christian posters in this forum.

@divegeester

Sonship I’m going make a sincere attempt to reach you on this topic...

As long as you realize that your "sincerity" doesn't automatically mean you are right. Your sincerity won't guarantee my agreement.

I know you are excited by the teaching of Lee

I am excited by the revelation of the Bible.
I am excited about good examples of God's servants who have lived well spiritually and taught well enabling others to enter into what they have enjoyed of Christ.

but if you want people to look at the important principles of his work you have to take yourself out of the frame.

This seems new.
I refer to Witness Lee enthusiastically, but not for his own sake. That may be YOUR assumption.

See first paragraph I refer to somethings Lee wrote because ...

I am excited by the revelation of the Bible - both the OT and NT.
I am excited about good examples of God's servants who have lived well spiritually and taught well enabling others to enter into what they have enjoyed of Christ.

as I write above.
I doubt that many real seekers of blessing, I don't think will be sidetracked by the things you mention will be counterproductive. And if I am wrong, I'll bear that responsibility before the judgment seat of Christ when I give account to how I served the Lord.

And please don't respond to this by boasting that no one gets anything from my posts or reads them. That just exposes that your gloating over the wrong things. That just exposes you delight that others share your own apathy and possible contempt for the subject matter.

You have to be overly honest, overly transparent and overly fair to Lee himself.

Number one - I have been.
Number two - I delight to do so
Number three - Witness Lee would be happy that the these things are being taught by Christians who learned much from him.

He was a person without self. He cared nothing for himself. He only cared for the interests of God. Such Christian workers to that deep degree are rare. And when God secures such a man or woman they often have great impact.

If I could be used by God a tenth as much as the consecration Witness Lee had, that would be wonderful. But I am now over 60 and he was more given to God at 24 years of age.

So be it. We Christians all have our place in the Body of Christ.

It is toe-curlingly objectionable for a Christian to present ministerial ideas, concepts and content in a way that can be construed as being your own ministerial ideas, concepts and content.

It is 101% your imagination that I get some personal pleasure out of thinking - " Gee, I have all these people thinking that I sonship originated all these teachings. Oh, I am SO HAPPY that they think I am SO original and SO gifted."

That assumption must be on YOUR PART, that an over 60 year old man gets some perverse pleasure to deceive others to render undue praise, is way out of proportion.

At the same time there is no need for false humility. I explored these things. I have been in these things for years. These things have become mine also just like someone growing in chess play assimilated the skills of others.

If there is something wrong in that outline on Eleven Reasons for the Assurance of Salvation I want you to be able to blame ME. Yes, I copied the order and derived comments from Witness Lee. But of course he did so in turn also from predecessors to himself.

Now it is in my hands. If you object to something I wrote there, you can blame me. "For I delivered to you, among the first things that which also I received ..."

In life we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who went before us but we must always and without fail recognise their inspiration, their intellectual ideas and their words.

I wrote that along time ago about we including Lee standing on others shoulders.

There is no lack of appreciation for that.
And the ONLY reason I did not IMMEDIATELY source the outline was to show you that I expected your usual bullying to do so.

When I want, on my time, I indicated the main source for the order of the points and some of the comments. You came to the thread with NO substantial comment beside the appreciated agreement. And after that as customary you set up a hoop (your first) for me to jump through for your entertainment.

"Oh where are you getting this sonship? nudge nudge."
(Before you make more significant comments of course)
Since you know probably where, there is no hurry to tell you just for your questionable entertainment value.

It is not enough, in fact it is nowhere near the mark, and in fact it is cringeworthy in its vaingloriousness, to hide behind the premise that all ministry orientates from God.

I didn't say all ministry orientates from God. I said there is one ministry - true New Testament ministry.

Refer back to the thread "Who Owns the Truth Anyway?"

"We do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord." (2 Cor. 4:5)