Originally posted by Suzianne "Trying to embarrass"? Who is "trying to embarrass" you? Do you mean Christians? I see no evidence of that. What I do see is the atheists "trying to embarrass" the Christians, by asking nonsense questions. With similar results, by the way.
My post is not that specific. I am discussing the phenomenon of arguing with people when one knows they will never give the slightest acknowledgement of your efforts.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem My post is not that specific. I am discussing the phenomenon of arguing with people when one knows they will never give the slightest acknowledgement of your efforts.
Questions: 1) Are we here to encourage and inform; 2) To ask questions and learn; 3) To publically worship our minds; 4) ?
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem You probably feel the same way about certain other people you debate. Right?
I once debated a woman I worked with regarding abortion. I was in rare form that day. I landed blow after blow. I frustrated her, beat her down, and saw that she was caving. At the end of the debate she complemented my on my debating skill, and then said,...."I know you are right, but I still believe women should still have the right to abortion" and walked off.
It was at that minute it hit me. Belief has very little to do with logic and reason. It was not within my power to overcome her belief system, no matter who clever I might be.
Originally posted by whodey I once debated a woman I worked with regarding abortion. I was in rare form that day. I landed blow after blow. I frustrated her, beat her down, and saw that she was caving. At the end of the debate she complemented my on my debating skill, and then said,...."I know you are right, but I still believe women should still have the right to abortion" and walk ...[text shortened]... on. It was not within my power to overcome her belief system, no matter who clever I might be.
It's true. Debates rarely result in the "loser" changing their opinion. And that really shouldn't come as a surprise. Beliefs that are formed over many years, by reflection, experience, etc. are not going to reversed in a single 30 minute discussion.
The root of beliefs can be complex. Logic and reason are not the only factors; there is experience, intuition, etc. We try to make all of those things play well together; we don't always succeed.
Originally posted by whodey I once debated a woman I worked with regarding abortion. I was in rare form that day. I landed blow after blow. I frustrated her, beat her down, and saw that she was caving. At the end of the debate she complemented my on my debating skill, and then said,...."I know you are right, but I still believe women should still have the right to abortion" and walk ...[text shortened]... on. It was not within my power to overcome her belief system, no matter who clever I might be.
Your anecdote doesn't seem very credible. You are one of the weakest debaters on the Debate Forum. I suggest you need more self-respect if you want to make your convictions more persuasive. Were you facetious and puerile when you talked to your co-worker?
Originally posted by FMF Your anecdote doesn't seem very credible. You are one of the weakest debaters on the Debate Forum. I suggest you need more self-respect if you want to make your convictions more persuasive. Were you facetious and puerile when you talked to your co-worker?
Originally posted by whodey I once debated a woman I worked with regarding abortion. I was in rare form that day. I landed blow after blow. I frustrated her, beat her down, and saw that she was caving. At the end of the debate she complemented my on my debating skill, and then said,...."I know you are right, but I still believe women should still have the right to abortion" and walk ...[text shortened]... on. It was not within my power to overcome her belief system, no matter who clever I might be.
We have good lawyers and bad lawyers, good debaters and bad debaters. Winning or losing in a trial or debate does not always prove who is guilty or innocent or who is right or wrong. It is not always easy to change a persons belief by having the right arguments, because the person has to be willing to accept correction. Many people are just too stubborn to even believe they could be wrong or too proud to change their position even when they see they are wrong.
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17 May '14 14:57
Originally posted by RJHinds We have good lawyers and bad lawyers, good debaters and bad debaters. Winning or losing in a trial or debate does not always prove who is guilty or innocent or who is right or wrong. It is not always easy to change a persons belief by having the right arguments, because the person has to be willing to accept correction. Many people are just too stubborn t ...[text shortened]... eve they could be wrong or too proud to change their position even when they see they are wrong.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem You probably feel the same way about certain other people you debate. Right?
I am the first person to admit when I'm wrong and I've done so more than any atheist on this forum.
Inflexibility in anything is a sign of weakness, of inferior intellect as well as ill-placed values.
A forever-student, I know well the necessity of an open mind and an attentive ear for truth.
Truth is the final arbiter, the only immovable.
It has been my experience on the forum how the disagreements are typically boiled down to incompatible thought currencies: the atheist deals in one type of currency, the theist in another... no exchange rate available.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH I am the first person to admit when I'm wrong and I've done so more than any atheist on this forum.
I don't think this is true. I think you dig your heels in and plant fingers in your ears as much as,if not more than, most people here, and do so whilst covering up your characteristic reluctance to admit you're wrong with copious amounts of Clan Forum style trash talk. Just saying that's all. 🙂
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem It's true. Debates rarely result in the "loser" changing their opinion. And that really shouldn't come as a surprise. Beliefs that are formed over many years, by reflection, experience, etc. are not going to reversed in a single 30 minute discussion.
The root of beliefs can be complex. Logic and reason are not the only factors; there is experience, intuition, etc. We try to make all of those things play well together; we don't always succeed.
We have all lost arguments and were later proven right and we have all won arguments only to be later proven wrong.
Originally posted by whodey We have all lost arguments and were later proven right and we have all won arguments only to be later proven wrong.
Food for thought.
That is also true. The person who should have won does not always win. It is one thing to have the facts on your side; it is another to make a strong, convincing presentation of them while the other person is doing their best to throw you off balance.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH I am the first person to admit when I'm wrong and I've done so more than any atheist on this forum.
Inflexibility in anything is a sign of weakness, of inferior intellect as well as ill-placed values.
A forever-student, I know well the necessity of an open mind and an attentive ear for truth.
Truth is the final arbiter, the only immovable.
It has bee ...[text shortened]... the atheist deals in one type of currency, the theist in another... no exchange rate available.
May I take that as a 'yes'?
If yes, then why do you continue to argue with those people? (This isn't an accusatory 'why', but an inquisitive one).
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem That is also true. The person who should have won does not always win. It is one thing to have the facts on your side; it is another to make a strong, convincing presentation of them while the other person is doing their best to throw you off balance.
It reminds me of that song by Sting.
A doo, doo doo, a da, da, da ,da, that is all I want to say to you.
In your heart you know you are right, even though others may rape you with their words.
Much like having a conversation with a troll like FMF.
16 May '14 22:30
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