1. Shetland Primary
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    11 May '05 14:52
    As a Christian I see that God has given man the freedom to choose, in other words, man has a free will. But with this free will man also has a responsibility. I believe that man is only free to the degree he subjects himself to God’s law. No man is therefore actually free, because all people are subjected to God’s authority.

    Every person is simultaneously free as person in authority but bound as subject of authority. I believe that God’s word has superior authority to man. But it is not up to man to interpret God’s word according to his own understanding, because often man tends to interpret God’s word to suit his own deceitful nature. I believe that the heart of man is deceitful above all things. Thus I believe that it is essential for man to be filled with God’s spirit, the Holy Spirit, which is to be our teacher. The Holy Spirit is to guide us and help us in interpreting God’s word, which should be the authority by which we live.

    Christian freedom is not licentiousness. For the Christian true freedom and authority are only found in Christ. This carries a Christian responsibility. There are certain values in which security can be experienced. I believe however that man must choose either for Christ or against Christ. There is no neutrality. All this implies that man chooses, but that he also must choose. He approves or disapproves.

    He is called up in freedom to decide, but this freedom is freedom to responsibility. Because he must chose he is therefore held responsible for his choices and is accountable, but also and especially culpable. As I see it, there are fixed sets of rules, as the laws of nature, which God has laid down. We are free to choose, but the consequences of our choices are preprogrammed with the choices that we make. Thus we are free to choose, but we cannot choose the consequences of our choice. These consequences follow automatically as appointed by God.
  2. Joined
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    11 May '05 21:07
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    man has a free will.
    If Man is born in sin (which is the viewpoint of Christianity) then Man cannot help but sin. Therefore Man has no free will to abstain from sin. Therefore he does not enjoy free will. The mistakes of my alleged forebearers would not result in the threat of eternal damnation to my own person if I enjoyed free will.



  3. Shetland Primary
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    12 May '05 08:22
    Originally posted by eagles54
    If Man is born in sin (which is the viewpoint of Christianity) then Man cannot help but sin. Therefore Man has no free will to abstain from sin. Therefore he does not enjoy free will. The mistakes of my alleged forebearers would not result in the threat of eternal damnation to my own person if I enjoyed free will.



    Therefore Man has no free will to abstain from sin.

    Man has the free will to choose to stop sinning. That is the whole point of Christianity! That is where being 'born again' fits in. We can have a re-birth in which we receive a new nature in which we can have victory over sin!

    John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
  4. Joined
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    12 May '05 09:49
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Man has the free will to choose to stop sinning. That is the whole point of Christianity! That is where being 'born again' fits in. We can have a re-birth in which we receive a new nature in which we can have victory over sin!
    If we are inherently sinful, meaning that sin is our very nature as is claimed by some that frequent this forum, then we are not free to choose not to sin.

    Either sin is our nature and there's nothing to be done about it, or sin is not our nature and any number of methods will help us realize as much.

    Do you envision any point in your current life where you will become sin-free, dj?
  5. Shetland Primary
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    12 May '05 10:411 edit
    Originally posted by eagles54
    If we are inherently sinful, meaning that sin is our very nature as is claimed by some that frequent this forum, then we are not free to choose not to sin.

    Either sin is our nature and there's nothing to be done about it, or si ...[text shortened]... any point in your current life where you will become sin-free, dj?
    Either sin is our nature and there's nothing to be done about it...

    Why do you think nothing can be done about it? Do you not think that the power with which Jesus Christ rose from the dead is sufficient to change the sinful nature of a mere human being? That is the whole message of the gospel.

    Matthew 1:21 - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Do you think Jesus would tell someone to do something which was impossible?

    John 5:14 - Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

    Do you envision any point in your current life where you will become sin-free, dj?

    Having a sinful-nature means that your nature continually drives you toward sinning. If your sinful-nature is changed, it means you no longer have that urge of sinning. I believe that there is a victorius Chritain life in which we are set free from sin completely. I am currently experiencing a life in which I can have victory over sin. This does not mean that I don't get tempted.

    1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

  6. Joined
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    12 May '05 11:50
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Why do you think nothing can be done about it? Do you not think that the power with which Jesus Christ rose from the dead is sufficient to change the sinful nature of a mere human being? That is the whole message of the gospel.
    I don't personally think that nothing can be done about the so-called sinful nature. It's not my claim but the claim of your fellow Christians that sin is our inherent nature. "Inherent" implies that there isn't any way to get rid of it.

    I think we will end up just going round 'n round here dj, so I'll call it good on my end. 😉

  7. Shetland Primary
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    12 May '05 12:04
    Originally posted by eagles54
    I don't personally think that nothing can be done about the so-called sinful nature. It's not my claim but the claim of your fellow Christians that sin is our inherent nature. "Inherent" implies that there isn't any way to get rid of it.

    I think we will end up just going round 'n round here dj, so I'll call it good on my end. 😉

    Inherent is defined as "Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic; intrinsic; occurring as a natural part or consequence; present at birth but not necessarily hereditary." I don't see why this should imply that there is no way to get rid of it.
  8. Joined
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    12 May '05 12:28
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I don't see why this should imply that there is no way to get rid of it.
    Why do you think there is only one way to do so then? Doesn't that seem extreme, taking into consideration the vast number of humans past and present with all their widely differing abilities, intellects, aptitudes, cultures, and understanding?
  9. Shetland Primary
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    12 May '05 14:22
    Originally posted by eagles54
    Why do you think there is only one way to do so then? Doesn't that seem extreme, taking into consideration the vast number of humans past and present with all their widely differing abilities, intellects, aptitudes, cultures, and understanding?
    Why do you think there is only one way to do so then?

    I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. In the Bible there are absolute claims. I know of no other religion which has absolute claims such as these. That is why I believe it to be true. It does not make sense in the first place that there would be many ways of getting to God if there is only one true living God. Look at all other religions. They have no proof. All their prophets are still in the grave. I believe that the power with which Christ rose from the dead is the proof that there is only one 'Power' with which man can be saved from his sinful nature. Look at any other religion. Can you tell me of any other 'religion' that has set people free from sin?

    John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    I believe that this is the best proof that the Word of God is the truth. What can speak louder than a life that is set free from sin. If a life is set free from sin it is the best evidence that the Bible is the truth. If the Bible is the truth, it means there is no one way for it to be done.

    I believe the mystery is revealed here:

    1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    This I believe is the only way in which we can have victory over sin. If you see that we are sinful, confess it, and repent from it. This is how it worked for me. I know of no other way...
  10. Joined
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    12 May '05 15:14
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Can you tell me of any other 'religion' that has set people free from sin?
    Can you tell me which people have been set free from sin? I would love to meet them.







  11. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 15:39
    Originally posted by eagles54
    Can you tell me which people have been set free from sin? I would love to meet them.







    Being "set free" from sin means one is no longer under the penalty of sin - which is death. It does not mean one can live a perfect sinless life. But it also means no longer being enslaved to sin - it entails a change of heart - a desire to stop sinning.
  12. Joined
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    12 May '05 15:47
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Being "set free" from sin means one is no longer under the penalty of sin - which is death. It does not mean one can live a perfect sinless life. But it also means no longer being enslaved to sin - it entails a change of heart - a desire to stop sinning.
    Thank you for clarifying that for me.



  13. Joined
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    12 May '05 16:31
    Originally posted by eagles54
    If Man is born in sin (which is the viewpoint of Christianity) then Man cannot help but sin. Therefore Man has no free will to abstain from sin. Therefore he does not enjoy free will. The mistakes of my alleged forebearers would not result in the threat of eternal damnation to my own person if I enjoyed free will.



    you have free will not to sin. But that freewill comes only JESUS CHRIST. What most do not understand is that Adam has no idea of what it would be like without GOD. He did not understand what the Law of disobedence was. He did not know of the price that would have to be paid. Your free will is to serve GOD or not. Your freewill is to accept the Salvation of JESUS CHRIST or not. Your freewill is to heaven or everlasting damnation. Your freewill is your choice.
  14. Joined
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    12 May '05 16:40
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    you have free will not to sin. But that freewill comes only JESUS CHRIST. What most do not understand is that Adam has no idea of what it would be like without GOD. He did not understand what the Law of disobedence was. He did not know of the price that would have to be paid. Your free will is to serve GOD or not. Your freewill is to accept the Salvati ...[text shortened]... HRIST or not. Your freewill is to heaven or everlasting damnation. Your freewill is your choice.
    I'm sorry bf101, but I can't bring myself to read your posts anymore when you shout. It's not necessary, as we all know what your stance is regarding your faith. There is absolutely no loss of profound reverance on your part by using the words God, or Jesus Christ, as others do.
  15. Joined
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    12 May '05 17:01
    Originally posted by eagles54
    I don't personally think that nothing can be done about the so-called sinful nature. It's not my claim but the claim of your fellow Christians that sin is our inherent nature. "Inherent" implies that there isn't any way to get rid of it.

    I think we will end up just going round 'n round here dj, so I'll call it good on my end. 😉

    Question: If there was a way to do something about your sinful nature, would you take advantage of it.
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