The natural religious thought of man is "Tell me what to do God and I'll DO IT."
The revelation of God is for us now to OPEN our beings wide to Christ Jesus. That is to open our hearts and allow this living Person as to come into us as the Spirit of life - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit."
We want to be told so many things we need to do. We like the laws and rules of DOs and DON'Ts. We want the clear consistent "Go Do This".
The New Testament requires that we first OPEN out beings to Jesus. That is OPEN every corner of our soul. That is to make room for the resurrected and living Christ to come into us and fill us.
Then we learn to live in an "organic" union with Christ. He has the power and He can enable us. This empowering and enabling of the indwelling life giving Spirit is called "grace".
Because Christ is with the believer's spirit the grace of Christ is also with them:
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Timothy 4:22)
Because the living Lord Jesus is with your spirit, grace is with you to empower you.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen." (Galatians 6:18)
Because Christ gets into a man to be one spirit with him the grace of Christ is also with his spirit to empower him, enable him to live righteously.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Philippians 4:23)
Same thing here. Because Christ has gotten on the inside of a woman or man to be one spirit with them, His empowering grace is with their spirit.
So we need to open up from our innermost being and receive the only one who is well pleasing to the Father. He is the only one who can live the Christian life - Christ Himself as the indwelling life giving Spirit:
"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Originally posted by jaywillOkay. That sounds perfect.
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Unless you see another possibility, which is it?
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A progressive gradual unfolding of the purpose of God.
Let me see if I hear you correctly: From the beginning of time God wanted something, but His
people weren't ready, so He tolerated a deviation from that something. But, once they became
ready, He said that it was time to observe it that they might grow in fuller holiness. In this
particular case, He didn't want to permit divorce, but the Israelites because of where they were
in their development as holy people could not accept such a restriction. However by Malachi's
time, and then reiterated by Jesus, it was time to repeal this permission, as it was no longer a
necessary concession on God's part.
Have I summarized you reasonably well?
Nemesio
Originally posted by jaywillThis was a bad typo I meant to write:
[b]===============================
Moses taught that it was God's commandment that divorce be permitted.
Jesus taught that man must never divide what God joined.
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He said that in the beginning it was not so. He refered back to the original plan for marriage.
In Malachi God said He hated divor ...[text shortened]... however, IS God come to us as the Lord and Savior to redeem us and live within us.[/b]
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You have heard that it was said, 'You shall [not] commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman in oder to lust after her has already commited adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye stumbl;es you, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna." (Matt. 5:27-29)
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Originally posted by NemesioYour summary was a fairly good attempt. I am recalling it by memory now. And recall my response was "so so".
I would not characterize the Malachi quotation as you did. This is simply God indicating to the divorcing priests that He hates divorce.
I don't know if you are a parent. But I had kids who sometimes I allowed to watch a TV program that I did not like. They were allowed to watch it. But I expressed my displeasure in the program
God's attitude towards the divorce had never changed.
God is not fidgety or fickle. The Malachi passage still took place under the Old Covenant.
In the New Covenant those desireing to live in the kingdom of the heavens are called to live through Christ, the highest standard of morality on the earth. Concerning marriage this intails that they be recovered to God's original perfect will.
I think the same is true occording polygamy. Your summary was so-so for now.
I will be watching to see if you will use it to press a case for the fickleness of the One Who says that He changes not.
Originally posted by jaywillEr. God changed His mind many times. He decided after the flood that He would never kill all
I will be watching to see if you will use it to press a case for the fickleness of the One Who says that He changes not.
of humanity again. He discussed things with Abraham and decided not to kill people. Jesus
was moved with pity when He saw people in a state.
C'mon. The Bible is full of times where God reflected further because of the actions of His people
and took a different course of action.
Do you deny this?
Nemesio
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999When I wrote that post, the passage that was in my mind was Malachi 3:6 -
You have a reference for this ?
"For I, Jehovah, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."
And here is the passage in the same book expressing His feeling about divorce:
"But did He not make [them] one? ... Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one be treacherous to the wife of his youth. For I hate divorce, says Jehovah the God of Israel; and he who does it behaves in violence, syas Jehovah of hosts. Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one be treacherous to the wife of his youth." (See Malachi 2:15,16)
To take heed to the spirit, I believe, means to take heed to the voice of one's conscience. The conscience is one of the functions of the human spirit.
This is significant. For you may be allowed to do many things. But if you check deep in your conscience you may not do them.
Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that it is right to do it.
Originally posted by NemesioNo I do not deny this. But in His righteousness He does not change.
Er. God changed His mind many times. He decided after the flood that He would never kill all
of humanity again. He discussed things with Abraham and decided not to kill people. Jesus
was moved with pity when He saw people in a state.
C'mon. The Bible is full of times where God reflected further because of the actions of His people
and took a different course of action.
Do you deny this?
Nemesio
In that sense He changes not, in His moral perfection, in His righteous being.
If He did not change in His procedure there would not be an Old Covenant and a New Covenant.
Can you see that God could make a new covenant and not change in certain divine attributes ?
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Originally posted by NemesioI don't follow your line of reasoning. I am not sure you follow it yourself.
But His position on tolerating it has. Right?
The law given permitting divorce with a certificate of divorce did not change His toleration. They had been doing it before the law was instituted. The law was instituted to bring some order to the chaos.
Probably it was particulary designed to protect the woman.
Both before and after the establishment of a ordely procedure God's attitude was the same.
"You are going to do this. I don't like it. I hate it. But in order to bring about some orderly procedure in what is now a free-for-all, I institute this matter of a proper certificate of divorce." (in essence)
Probably, men were divorcing their wives. And on some given night when they were lonely, they wanted to arbitrarily sleep with them again that night.
God says "Oh no! You let her go. She is free and does not have to go back to you. You give her proof in the form of a certificate that she is no longer your wife."
I don't think you can make a case for God turning off and on and off and on again His toleration.
Originally posted by jaywillOkay. However, after a point, He rescinded His toleration and reiterated His true position which,
I don't follow your line of reasoning. I am not sure you follow it yourself.
The law given permitting divorce with a certificate of divorce did not change His toleration. They had been doing it before the law was instituted. The law was instituted to bring some order to the chaos.
Probably it was particulary designed to protect the woman.
Both b ...[text shortened]... hink you can make a case for God turning off and on and off and on again His toleration.
it would at first appear, was in contradiction with His early position. Right?
It is interesting to note that He never rescinded His position on polygamy. Yes, Jesus spoke
about the two becoming one flesh and so forth, but as mentioned that doesn't exclude having
many wives (because the Husband and Wife 1 are one flesh, and Husband and Wife 2 are also
one flesh). But that's not my essential point, so I won't belabor it.
So, in time, God rescinded His toleration on something (divorce) that He previously allowed
(but always hated). Right?
Nemesio
Originally posted by Nemesioit can be argued by some that god doesn't change. it is we who change and have different needs. and in his omniscience he forseen that change and already had a new set of rules. god has a library with books labeled "to use when..."
Okay. However, after a point, He rescinded His toleration and reiterated His true position which,
it would at first appear, was in contradiction with His early position. Right?
It is interesting to note that He never rescinded His position on polygamy. Yes, Jesus spoke
about the two becoming one flesh and so forth, but as mentioned that doesn't excl ...[text shortened]... ion on something (divorce) that He previously allowed
(but always hated). Right?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioI think that Zahlanzi has an important point. Maybe God has different rules for different people. We often like to think that all people are equal and should be given one set of rules but the facts simply do not bear that out. In fact it would be virtually impossible for God to put every human being through an identical life trial - not to mention how boring it would be.
So, in time, God rescinded His toleration on something (divorce) that He previously allowed
(but always hated). Right?
So God clearly has to judge people differently depending on the circumstances they are placed in, and possibly he sets different rules for them too. One must ask whether divorce is simply inherently wrong and sinful or merely wrong for a certain set of people.
Originally posted by twhiteheadNaturally, I'm inclined to agree. But I doubt Jaywill does.
Maybe God has different rules for different people. We often like to think that all people are equal and should be given one set of rules but the facts simply do not bear that out. In fact it would be virtually impossible for God to put every human being through an identical life trial - not to mention how boring it would be.
Do you, Jaywill?
Nemesio