God on the Inside

Originally posted by divegeester
You have zero scriptures supporting your claim, or should I say your churches claim as you didn't come to that conclusion yourself, that Adam won't be resurrected.

I not with interest that you frequently post a load of blurb just before conveniently disappearing to bed so you don't have to engage any reply.

Sleep tight.

ironic that you retort with a cheapo though.

Originally posted by roigam
Well said.
He's not the first one to be deceived or to act the deceiver.

Please specify where the deception is.

Are you ignorant that Paul described the believers as vessels ?

" But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)

God's salvation brings finally the "treasure" of the divine life of God in Christ as the Holy Spirit INTO the human " earthen vessels ".

The excellency of the power of the is not of the earthen vessel but of the living "treasure" deposited within.

So do you see how you are still very ignorant ? Learn something true.

" But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)

Originally posted by divegeester
Long over-engineered, convoluted monologue posts on the outside.

Long over-engineered convoluted monologue error on the inside.

Are you still so lazy as to get into the depths of the Bible ?

For Christ to make His home in our hearts through faith necessitates the we be enterable as vessels.

" That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith." (Eph. 3:17)

So we have to receive christ by faith so that the vessel of our inner spiritual and psychological being may become His home. Not that He would visit. It is that He would spread His authority over more and more of our being - making His home in us. That is making Himself at home and comfortable.

Of course Paul indicated that the believers are "vessels of glory" which means they are "containers" designed to contain God expression, God's manifestation, and God's splendor.

" In order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy which He had before prepared unto glory." (Romans 9:23)

I am a vessel, a vessel of mercy. All Christians have been prepared to be vessels to contain God. This of course makes them living receptacles upon which God seeks to manifest His glory.

You probably never heard of any such thing at the Unitarian congregation, or where ever you got your teaching.

Furthermore, Paul says of the believers in Christ that we are vessels to contain the excellent life of Christ with His excellent power.

" But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)

if this is too convoluted for you maybe you are just too lazy to seriously get into the depths of the Bible.

Originally posted by roigam

Concerning the accusation that I am a deceiver:

Sure, read your Bible and see how Satan acted the deceiver at Ge 3:-5 and then how Eve became a deceiver at Ge 3:6.
Or if you want something more contemporary, consider the politicians of almost any country.

This has nothing to do with me pointing out that man is a vessel designed to contain God as divine life.

Satan ran ahead of God to cause man to be united with Satan. Man, upon eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil became Satanified. Man became polluted and poisoned with a foreign element.

This did not change at all God's original purpose that man was created as a vessel to contain God. That is why God placed man before the tree of life that man would take God INTO himself.

In fallen man there is still a vacuum, a "God shaped" whole. The writer Solomon put it this way - that God has put eternity in man's heart. That is that there is hunger in man for something eternal. This is the longing to be filled in that God shaped vacuum in the fallen mankind.

" I have seen the travail that God has given the children of men to travail in.

He has made everything beautiful in its own time; also He has put eternity in their heart, yet so that man does not find out what God has done from the beginning to the end. "

(Ecclesiastes 3:10,11)

The God shaped whole in man causes man to have a thirst, a hunger for the eternal.
Man was created as a living vessel for God to come INTO him.

Originally posted by sonship
Are you still so lazy as to get into the depths of the Bible ?

For Christ to make His home in our hearts through faith necessitates the we be enterable as vessels.

[b] " That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith." (Eph. 3:17)

So we have to receive christ by faith so that the vessel of our inner sp ...[text shortened]... oo convoluted for you maybe you are just too lazy to seriously get into the depths of the Bible.[/b]

I'm not talking about you OP I was responding to the "outside v inside" ideas that were being kicked off.

Originally posted by divegeester
You have zero scriptures supporting your claim, or should I say your churches claim as you didn't come to that conclusion yourself, that Adam won't be resurrected.

I not with interest that you frequently post a load of blurb just before conveniently disappearing to bed so you don't have to engage any reply.

Sleep tight.

I did have a good night's rest thank you.

Who is the ransom provision for?
It is for the offspring of Adam who have inherited sin from Adam.
That provision was made after Adam sinned and therefore it does not apply to him.
He was perfect and his sin was deliberate.
There have been others who have been judged and will not receive a resurrection.
The judgement is based on their knowingly sinning as Judas did.
Of course you need to study the Bible and think about it to see the truth in it.

Originally posted by roigam

Who is the ransom provision for?
It is for the offspring of Adam who have inherited sin from Adam.
That provision was made after Adam sinned and therefore it does not apply to him.
He was perfect and his sin was deliberate.

Adam needed redemption just as much as any of his descendents needed redemption.

He was no longer pristine perfect after he sinned. And therefore the clothing of him and the killing of the cattle for him were in type the redemption God provided.

Immediately after the fall both Adam and Eve realized that they were not very good. They condemned themselves, hid themselves, and used fig leaves to cover themselves (Gen. 3:7-8). Adam and Eve hid themselves from the presence of God. They knew that they had violated God's prohibition against eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge and that the result of their transgression was to be death. Therefore, they hid themselves from the Lord's presence, awaiting the sentence of death. However, God came in, not to declare the sentence of death, but to preach the gospel. God did not pronounce the sentence of death; He sounded the voice of the gospel.

From Life Study of Genesis, W, Lee.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?cid=0A22

I think God actually preached the Gospel to Adam.
So what puzzles me more is the possibility that Adam would even be saved yet many of his descendants left unbelieving and perish.

b) Causing Enmity between the Seed of the Serpent
and the Seed of the Woman

Adam and Eve were waiting for death, thinking themselves to be under the sentence of death. Hence, the mention of a seed came as glad tidings to them. They thought it was impossible for them to have a seed because they were doomed to die immediately. When Adam heard that the woman was going to have a seed, he called his wife's name Eve, which in Hebrew means "living." As Adam and Eve were awaiting the sentence of death in fear and trembling, there suddenly came the glad tidings that this woman would have a seed, and Adam spontaneously said, "Living. You are not dying, you are living. Your name is Eve. You are living." As we have seen in message seventeen, when Adam first saw Eve in Genesis 2:23 he was excited, saying, "This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." However, in Genesis 3 Adam was also excited. Instead of receiving the sentence of condemnation, he heard the gospel. So, Adam called his wife, "Living." We have all heard these glad tidings and we all should call ourselves "Living." If you ask me my name, I will tell you that my name is "Living."

God preached the gospel in verse 15, and Adam reacted to the gospel in verse 20. If Adam had not reacted to the gospel, he would have called his wife "Dying," saying, "Poor woman, don't you know that you are the cause of death? Your name should be Dying." On the contrary, after Adam heard God's preaching of the gospel he was happy and called his wife's name Eve—"Living." The whole world today is under the sentence of death, and we must go to them proclaiming Genesis 3:15. When the people hear the glad tidings of Genesis 3:15, receiving the gospel and responding to it, they will shout, "Now we are living. Praise the Lord!"

Latter we see "God on the inside" as He longs to look to MAN for His dwelling place. He is not satisfied with all of the universe. He seeks to LIVE in MAN.

" Thus says Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, And the earth is the footstool for My feet. Where then is the house that you will build for Me, And where is the place of My rest? (Isaiah 66:1)

See? God seeks a house. God seeks a place to rest. All the heavens and the earth are His creation. But they are not suitable as a resting place for God to dwell in.

Then He goes on to say these things He made. But He looks to humanity for His dwelling place and rest.

"For all these things My hand has made, And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah.

BUT ... to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word." (v.2)

Man is created a containing vessel. God is looking to dwell in this kind of human being. That is those who are not haughty as Satan was, but are poor in spirit and who tremble with high regard for the word of God. To these kind of humanity does God look to dispense His Spirit into them.

Though God created heaven as His throne and the earth as His footstool, this creation is not suitable for a HOUSE for God to rest in and dwell in.

God created MAN to be a place of His rest to dwell in.

"For all these things My hand has made, And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah.

But to this kind of man will I look ..."

You have to understand that the subject is "WHERE is God's house?". So now God says to this kind of man will He LOOK to find what He is seeking.

" But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word."

Humanity, poor in spirit, [NOT haughty and proud as Lucifer the Daystar (Satan) was, God will look. God will seek to live and rest by dwelling one with man who highly regards His revelation and trembles at His word.

What does this look like? Firstly, it looks like the Lord Jesus Christ.

So here we are in the universe. But God the Supreme Creator is speaking to us. His word is not like the word of anyone else. It should cause us to sit up and take notice quite amazingly and seriously.

God even says He looks to the man who trembles at His word. That is why so many people do not want to read the bible. Maybe something in it bothers them. Maybe something in this wonderful word causes them to tremble.

But God is seeking to really come into our hearts. We are vessels. We are living vessels that Someone so comfortably could be one with us and join to us. This is God. This is Jesus Christ come to make His home in our hearts by faith.


If you tremble a little at the word of God, that is a good thing. Things lasting, meanigful, even eternal may cause a kind of trembling in you. Do not be bothered if the word of God causes a little trembling in you. Do not for that reason push the Bible away from you.

Rather take a little at a time - a little at a time. - a little at a time until your capacity and hunger grows for this Divine Speaking of God to us.

Originally posted by roigam
I did have a good night's rest thank you.

Who is the ransom provision for?
It is for the offspring of Adam who have inherited sin from Adam.
That provision was made after Adam sinned and therefore it does not apply to him.
He was perfect and his sin was deliberate.
There have been others who have been judged and will not receive a resurrection.
The ju ...[text shortened]... as Judas did.
Of course you need to study the Bible and think about it to see the truth in it.

Who is the ransom provision for?

I don't know why you don't think it was for Adam and Eve as well as all the descendents.

The killing of the cattle that Adam and Eve may be clothed, surely pointed to the slain Lamb of God that we be clothed in Christ as our righteousness.

God redeems man so that He may bring man back to His eternal purpose of dispensing His life and Spirit into man.

It is not just resurrection that is His full salvation. It is resurrection and INDWELLING.

It is not just the cleansing of the blood of redemption for the forgiveness of sins. It is being much more saved in the whole realm of His indwelling life.

Originally posted by divegeester
You have zero scriptures supporting your claim, or should I say your churches claim as you didn't come to that conclusion yourself, that Adam won't be resurrected.

I not with interest that you frequently post a load of blurb just before conveniently disappearing to bed so you don't have to engage any reply.

Sleep tight.

I believe that sonship owns the better part of this overly extended argument. But what both have written here, in my opinion, errs in attempting to squeeze some irrefutable, eternal truth out of an early folk legend about the creation of universe and humankind. It was never meant to be read as one might read and analyze some item in this morning's New York Times. The unfortunate result is plain in the exchange. It yields in that unhappy, impolite, and poisonous attack on one contemporary (though extreme) expression of Protestant Christianity today in the Third World.There was no justification for that language. That's one reason why the masses in Euro-America are leaving the Church in droves.
GSWilM

Originally posted by gswilm to divegeester
I believe that sonship owns the better part of this overly extended argument. But what both have written here, in my opinion, errs in attempting to squeeze some irrefutable, eternal truth out of an early folk legend about the creation of universe and humankind.

Mmm. I'm not sure which argument you've been reading, but surely it is sonship who has the long, obsessive, and rather glass-chinned track record of squeezing irrefutable, eternal truth out of early folk legends about the creation of universe and humankind rather than divegeester, no?

It is sonship, after all, who has tackled dissent and diversity in debates here by talking of being comforted (as a Christian) by the knowledge that his dissenters will be burned for eternity by way of supernatural vengeance, that such people will be hung out on chains as a warning to the people of other worlds, that there are people with beliefs different from his posting here who may be causing hundreds of people ~ on this forum ~ to face never ending torture after they die, and comparing people with different beliefs from him to holocaust deniers... and other thoroughly poisonous stuff extrapolated (ostensibly) from "early folk legend".

If divegeester has "erred" in ways comparable to these, you might want to point out some of the occasions when he did.

Originally posted by gswilm
I believe that sonship owns the better part of this overly extended argument. But what both have written here, in my opinion, errs in attempting to squeeze some irrefutable, eternal truth out of an early folk legend about the creation of universe and humankind. It was never meant to be read as one might read and analyze some item in this morning's New York ...[text shortened]... age. That's one reason why the masses in Euro-America are leaving the Church in droves.
GSWilM

Other than sonship's rather odd usage of your username after rather oddly abandoning "jaywill", I have no idea who you are. Are you his bother?

Either way, if, after reading whatever "extended argument" it is you have been reading you have finally decided that you have something to say to me, then talk to ME, rather than reply to a post I've made to someone else.

As for blaming me and my posts for the "masses leaving the church" I suggest you stop and consider what it is I'm contesting with your brother. I suggest you stop and consider that it is he who promotes a completely incoherent figure of a torturer God and he who suggests there are people on other worlds who are observers of the flesh-melting apocalyptic horror that your brother describes as his version of god's "perfect justice".

My username is divegeester and I'm more than happy to engage with you on this topic should you suddenly find yourself once again sufficiently motivated.

God bless you in you search and contention for, the truth.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ironic that you retort with a cheapo though.

Was spot on I thought.