'How' and 'why' questions

Originally posted by Lord Shark
I think you are addressing a slightly different notion here,

I fail to see how it is different. (or is that why it is different)

This theist argument has several forms and is designed to show the existence of an uncaused first cause as the only alternative to an infinite regress. I think what is gained from the theist perspective by labelling this 'god', is precisely the aspect of Aristotle's concept of final cause, teleology, that gives a sense that everything is the way it is for a purpose.

This is why 'goddunnit' has a narrative force for believers that 'brute fact' does not, since the brute fact becomes an attribute of a benevolent agent. This taps into a rich network of common sense intuitions that we are predisposed to have regarding agents.
I think that is all right on point. Theism tries to dress 'how' up in 'why' clothes. In reality though, it is still a brute fact and no more answers the 'why' than any other brute fact.
Theists frequently look at atheists and say 'without God, life has no purpose'. Yet cannot explain how God creates purpose. It is an illusion.

I fail to see how it is different. (or is that why it is different)
Look up 'Aristotle, four causes' and compare that with what you get for 'argument from first cause' and I'm confident that you'll see the differences.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Look up 'Aristotle, four causes' and compare that with what you get for 'argument from first cause' and I'm confident that you'll see the differences.

I see now.
But my point remains, that for any 'why' answer, you are left with more 'why' questions, and ultimately you will get to a brute fact.
Many people seek a "final cause" (as per Aristotle) because they are uncomfortable with other types of causes (which also tend to amount to brute facts), but they do not realize that they are not really solving the problem. They are merely hiding it.

In an appreciation of Charles Darwin published in Nature in 1874, Asa Gray noted "Darwin's great service to Natural Science in bringing back to it Teleology." Darwin quickly responded, "What you say about Teleology pleases me especially and I do not think anyone else has ever noticed the point."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Fabian - then it was written by a paedophile.

I apologise to the forum for this small diversion, our delusional friend here thinks can get away with just about anything from behind the relative comfort and safety of a pc. He needs to learn discipline and take correction and see a psychiatrist.

robbie: "Fabian - then it was written by a paedophile."
You really have to read the whole text so you understand it in the correct context. Do you read tyour version of the bible as carelessly?

robbie: "I apologise to the forum for this small diversion"
You show here that you have some insights after all. Good for you.

robbie: "He needs to learn discipline and take correction and see a psychiatrist."
Here you repeat the personl attack once again, and he thinks I am disrespectful? Okay.

Now listen, robbie. This is the method of the former Soviet state, to get anyone who don't agree with the current order to the mental hospitals. To not be a communist showed that they're really in need for psychiatrist help. Do you represent the Soviet State?

No of course you don't, you represent the cult of Jehowas wittness. You have insights of this cult, and you advice in the same manners in the Former Soviet state. Okay, you teach me new things every day. Everyone not sharing your opinions deserves psychiatrist treatment.

This is why I insist calling JW as a cult. Because it is a cult. Monoform thinking is their parade.

Jehowas wittness is known to harbour paedophilia and protect their paedophiles.
Sources? Here are a few:

A Jehovah's Witness has been spared a jail term after admitting a series of sexual assaults on children and adults in Clevedon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/6960166.stm

"Secret database protects paedophiles. The Jehovah's Witnesses organisation keeps a sex offenders register that nobody outside the church is allowed to see, a former "elder" tells Panorama."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/6960166.stm

"Paedophile used religion to keep abuse secret
A paedophile raped and sexually assaulted women and girls over a period of 40 years by using their religion to keep the abuse secret.
Despite one revealing it to the Jehovah's Witness elders, no help was given, a court heard."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/191052/1/Paedophile-used-religion-to-keep-abuse-secret

There are tons of sources in the same kind if you google around a little. So it's not my opinion, it's a known fact.

And robbie knows that this is red hot stuff. He want's it to be silenced. He rather deal with it within the sect. And thus show us clearly that JW has it's own laws where in order to protect JW with a bad reputation rather protect the paedophiles themselves.

This is a cancer within the Jehowas Wittnes. Why not just kick them out to the hands of the authorities in the first place. Look after that this cannot happen again. To look after the victims and make sure that within the closed doors of JW cult people, especially the children, can feel safe.

But no. Robbie protects the paedophiles instead of telling us that it is a shame. He protects his cult by protecting the paeodhiles, and sacrifies the victims for their entire lives.

Shame on you robbie! Shame on you! 😠