09 Jul 05
Originally posted by Valdorienthe bigger question is why should it matter at all what the bible says in the first place?
in the bible or what not, i kan't b 2 sure, but doesn't say that anything without a soul can be killed like animals? and if u do commit suicide that yur salvation is taken away?
09 Jul 05
Originally posted by Conrau Ki seriously doubt that all people who commit suicide are 'mentally incompetent', whatever we take that to mean. many people with cold metal pressed against their head have probably pulled the trigger uttering the phrase 'god forgive me' or some such nonsense; they knew what they were doing.
True. But we also must recognise that poeple who commit suicide are not accountable for their actions as they are mentally incompetent.
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10 Jul 05
Originally posted by LemonJelloI recently had a friend of mine who was only 15 commit suicide. She wrote a letter saying similar things to what you speculated someone might say in such circumstances. Understand though that she had been suffering from severe depression for a year. I doubt she really wanted to die but life became too difficult for her. She was a brilliant ice hockey player who represented her country. I had no idea the anguish she was going through. I honestly think that no perfectly sane person would choose to kill themselves, no matter how rational they appear. There is obciously some triggering event (parental divorce) and some vulnerability (a genetic pre- disposition) involved to cause soemone to commit suicide.
i seriously doubt that all people who commit suicide are 'mentally incompetent', whatever we take that to mean. many people with cold metal pressed against their head have probably pulled the trigger uttering the phrase 'god forgive me' or some such nonsense; they knew what they were doing.
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by LemonJellojust thinking... it seems kinda wrong to say some of those things to so many people who believe in the bibl cause it seems like so many of it's twisted to fit a certain life style... that's all...
the bigger question is why should it matter at all what the bible says in the first place?
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by Valdorienwww.hti.umich.edu/relig/kjv/
no i don't i'm sorry! T_T i don't really have a bible i can reference to and if i did i probably wouldn't b able 2 find it..... i'm sorry, Shopie 13
This will help you find any verse you want. You don't even need to own a Bible
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by ValdorienYes, God places tremendous value on human life. He has said that we must not murder (killing, as in a just war, or in self-defense, or in capital punishment, is different from murder). Suicide is generally considered to be self-murder, and is not approved of by God, methinks.
in the bible or what not, i kan't b 2 sure, but doesn't say that anything without a soul can be killed like animals? and if u do commit suicide that yur salvation is taken away?
But, no, I don't think it says in the Bible that suicide means one would lose their salvation. Even a deliberate serial killer can have the sin of murder removed through repentance and accepting the forgiving work of Jesus on his behalf.
And especially in the case of suicide, which so often is done in an extreme state of depression or some form of mental trauma, only God can make the proper judgement about that person's salvation.
If a defective brain causes one to commit murder, or self-murder, the mind of that person can not be held responsible. The true state of the mind, whether it is rejecting of Christ or accepting His salvation, is what matters.
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by LemonJellowell, for one, if those professing the Bible as their authority would actually take the time to read it without preconceptions, they would find a complete absence of support for their primary political cause in modern America--that life begins at conception. The Bible's position is clear and consistent: breath is life. Life, it would seem, begins at birth.
the bigger question is why should it matter at all what the bible says in the first place?
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by chinking58Please explain the concept of "just war" as laid out in the Bible, with citations.
Yes, God places tremendous value on human life. He has said that we must not murder (killing, as in a just war, or in self-defense, or in capital punishment, is different from murder).
In truth, the concept of "just war" was brought into the Western Hemisphere with the Spanish "Requerimiento," not the Bible.
10 Jul 05
Originally posted by Conrau KI'm not sure what you say when you say "perfectly sane." Most religions preach that we humans are imperfect in some way andn must pray, ask forgiveness, meditate, etc. to seach for or recieve the gift of perfection, and more often then not, even if these religions were correct, it wouldn't come immediately. Outside the aspect of religion, people lie, cheat and steal their way through life without thinking twice about it. Is this perfectly sane? Others think too much about what pathetic, flawed, vicious and downright dangerous we humans can be, how truly complicated life is and how nearly impossible it is to live life while staying conscious of the morality of our actions. Are these people insane?
I recently had a friend of mine who was only 15 commit suicide. She wrote a letter saying similar things to what you speculated someone might say in such circumstances. Understand though that she had been suffering from severe depression for a year. I doubt she really wanted to die but life became too difficult for her. She was a brilliant ice hockey player ...[text shortened]... nd some vulnerability (a genetic pre- disposition) involved to cause soemone to commit suicide.
Please clarify your take on sane so I can understand what you mean when you suggest that no "perfectly sane" person could possibly want off this carnival ride.
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10 Jul 05
Originally posted by Conrau Ki am very sorry for your loss of a good friend who possessed much potential. i know a few who have committed suicide, and still to this day i fail to understand why and lament their passing.
I recently had a friend of mine who was only 15 commit suicide. She wrote a letter saying similar things to what you speculated someone might say in such circumstances. Understand though that she had been suffering from severe depression for a year. I doubt she really wanted to die but life became too difficult for her. She was a brilliant ice hockey player ...[text shortened]... nd some vulnerability (a genetic pre- disposition) involved to cause soemone to commit suicide.
however, i stand by my former post, and i disagree with your assertion that anyone who commits suicide must be 'mentally incompetent' and not accountable for their actions. i had one friend who hanged himself in an abandoned house. he knew exactly what he was doing; he even knew to fall hard enough to break his neck so that he would avoid unnecessary pain. he was suffering with depression too, but his mind was sharp as a knife. he took the easy way out (he admitted as much in the letter), and as much as i miss him, i blame only him for his death.
maybe i am misrepresenting what you mean by 'mentally incompetent'. if you are arguing that a depressed person is necessarily 'mentally incompetent', then i see where you are coming from, except that i disagree that depression implies mental incompetence. and i would certainly disagree if you are saying that a depressed person is not morally responsible for their actions.