I might be realizing I'm a deist

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No. I believe the universe has always existed, in one form or another.

No need for your sky God.

So, instead of one 'Big Bang', you believe in the 'Big Bounce'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bounce

@darfius said
You speak of 'the universe' as if it is a single entity rather than our label for the sum totality of objects which exist. Which of these objects do you propose has existed "in one form or another?" Because we as yet are not aware of an eternal object. Or even that such an object is possible.

'The Universe' is a collective noun for everything that exists. It is correct to speak of it in this way. It's like speaking of 'my stuff' as shorthand for 'everything I own'. Common usage, you know?

@suzianne said
'The Universe' is a collective noun for everything that exists. It is correct to speak of it in this way. It's like speaking of 'my stuff' as shorthand for 'everything I own'. Common usage, you know?

The point I am making is that colloquialisms sometimes "sneak" assumptions past critical examination. Nothing in the universe is "eternal", so why would adding up a bunch of nothings add up to something?

@darfius said
You speak of 'the universe' as if it is a single entity rather than our label for the sum totality of objects which exist. Which of these objects do you propose has existed "in one form or another?" Because we as yet are not aware of an eternal object. Or even that such an object is possible.

The universe 'is' a single entity.

Is God a single entity?

@suzianne said
So, instead of one 'Big Bang', you believe in the 'Big Bounce'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bounce

Big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch, big bang.... (You get the picture).

@darfius said
The point I am making is that colloquialisms sometimes "sneak" assumptions past critical examination. Nothing in the universe is "eternal", so why would adding up a bunch of nothings add up to something?

If the universe itself is eternal, and everything is part of this one universe, then 'everything' is in fact eternal.

Think of the Buddhist concept of individual grains of salt dissolving into the same ocean.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The universe 'is' a single entity.

Is God a single entity?

There you go again trying to pass colloquialisms off as scientific precision. The universe is not a single entity. It is the collection of entities.

God is not a single entity, but the entity known as the Father is eternal and for all eternity He has "begotten" the Son.

@Darfius

I'm Christian. I used to debate here back in the day. Thought I'd check out the old stomping grounds.

Do you prefer to keep your past identity your own business?
If you do, I believe that is perfectly your right to do so.

But there is one poster who I wonder if you are him.
Maybe I'll PM you.
Maybe I'll just watch along.

Welcome either way.

@darfius said
There you go again trying to pass colloquialisms off as scientific precision. The universe is not a single entity. It is the collection of entities.

God is not a single entity, but the entity known as the Father is eternal and for all eternity He has "begotten" the Son.

Kindly evidence. (Remembering the Bible is a purely human written document, so please do not try to pass it off as something with any clout).

@sonship said
@Darfius

I'm Christian. I used to debate here back in the day. Thought I'd check out the old stomping grounds.

Do you prefer to keep your past identity your own business?
If you do, I believe that is perfectly your right to do so.

But there is one poster who I wonder if you are him.
Maybe I'll PM you.
Maybe I'll just watch along.

Welcome either way.

His join date was 22 Dec '04 so it is a logical assumption he is using the 'same' identity.


This common sense was brought to you today by an atheist.

@sonship said
@Darfius

I'm Christian. I used to debate here back in the day. Thought I'd check out the old stomping grounds.

Do you prefer to keep your past identity your own business?
If you do, I believe that is perfectly your right to do so.

But there is one poster who I wonder if you are him.
Maybe I'll PM you.
Maybe I'll just watch along.

Welcome either way.

Thank you. My handle since 2004 has always been Darfius.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Kindly evidence. (Remembering the Bible is a purely human written document, so please do not try to pass it off as something with any clout).

What would you like evidence for? And have you given up the claim that the fictitious entity known as "the universe" is eternal?

@darfius said
What would you like evidence for? And have you given up the claim that the fictitious entity known as "the universe" is eternal?

You have stated that 'the entity known as the Father is eternal and for all eternity He has "begotten" the Son.'

Please evidence that the above claim is true and that my (ongoing) claim of an eternal universe is fictitious.

(I won't accept 'because you say so' ).

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Kindly evidence. (Remembering the Bible is a purely human written document, so please do not try to pass it off as something with any clout).

If that is a starting point then I would not "remember" that.
I'd be willing to "remember" that that is YOUR erroneous belief.

I believe the Bible is a product of God communicating with human beings. It did not float down from the sky. But the Bible is a communication from God to us humanity.

Aren't you asking for a concession right up front ?

Remember the Bible is a purely human written document?

Oh no.

Maybe YOU "remember" that the sixty six books of the Bible are the result of God speaking to humankind through human writers under inspiration, moved by the Spirit of God?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Kindly evidence. (Remembering the Bible is a purely human written document, so please do not try to pass it off as something with any clout).

If that is a starting point then I would not "remember" that.
I'd be willing to "remember" that that is YOUR erroneous belief.

I believe the Bible is a product of God communicating with h ...[text shortened]... lt of God speaking to humankind through human writers under inspiration, moved by the Spirit of God?

Sorry sonship, did I miss your retraction for the erroneous statement that I believed the universe created itself out of nothing (despite telling you numerous times I believe in an eternal universe that had no creation event? ).

Swallow your pride, acknowledge your error, or jog on.