"Is Atheism a Belief or a Lack of Belief?"

Originally posted by FMF
What makes you think I'd want my Christian faith "rekindled"?

All I thought was that you are being open minded, did you listen to it or not?

Originally posted by FMF
Thanks. But what is it you are claiming I have "admitted"? I didn't say anything just now that I haven't openly talked about for many years here.

Some of the things you admitted seemed to indicate that you were somewhat open minded.

"Is Atheism a Belief or a Lack of Belief?" (By Trent Horn)

""When asked to prove atheism is true, many atheists say that they don’t have to prove anything."

Correction: it doesn't make any sense.

"They say atheism is not “belief there is no God” but merely “no belief in a God.” Atheism is defined in this context as a “lack of belief” in God, and if Catholics can’t prove God exists, then a person is justified in being an atheist.""

Interesting, you choice of words implies that the entire belief system of an atheist depends entirely on some theist we just met. Or maybe I'm reading you too literally.


"But the problem with defining atheism as simply “the lack of belief in God” is that there are already another group of people who fall under that definition: agnostics."

Ok, I swear you people are just quoting each other. Are you doing that? Did you copy-and-paste an argument from another Theist? Please use original arguments. When 1,000 theists all use the exact same arguments, and use words they can't define when we question them, You all look like morons.

The "I Don't Know's"

"Agnosticism (from the Greek word for knowledge, gnosis) is the position that a person cannot know if God exists."

If that is the definition of agnosticism, then I am not an agnostic and never was, and indeed I switched directly from Christianity directly the Atheism the very second Bugs Bunny described abiogenesis. I actually disagree with this definition, but for the sake of argument I am going to go with it.

A strong agnostic is someone like skeptic Michael Shermer, who claims that no one is able to know if God exists. He writes, “I once saw a bumper sticker that read “Militant agnostic: I don’t know and you don’t either.” This is my position on God’s existence: I don’t know and you don’t either.”

1. "A weak agnostic merely claims that while he doesn’t know if God exists, it is possible that someone else may know. Agnosticism and weak atheism are very similar in that both groups claim to be “without belief in God.” "

Wait a minute, wait a minute: you AGREE that weak atheists exist? Then WTF are we arguing about??!!


"Because agnosticism seems more open-minded than atheism, many atheists are more apt to describe themselves like agnostics, who likewise have “no belief in a God,” even though they call themselves “atheist.” They say that an atheist is just a person who lacks a belief in God but is open to being proven wrong."

That's right

"But saying you lack a belief in God no more answers the question, “Does God exist?” than saying you lack a belief in aliens answers the question, “Do aliens exist?”"

THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION! Your opening statement was abut Atheism, not whether or not God exists.

"This is just agnosticism under a different name."

No, you said agnosticism was the belief that God was unknowable. I believe that if there was such a thing as Jehovah there would be evidence, or signs that the Bibe is based on fact. Therefore, open-mindedness is not agnosticism.

"For example, can we say agnosticism is true? We can’t, because agnostics make no claims about the world; "

You said agnostics think God was unknowable. Weak Atheism, therefore, is the position that YOU don't know.

"they just describe how they feel about a fact in the world (the existence of God)."

Now you're completely contradicting yourself. That's definitely Atheism.

"Likewise, if atheists want us to believe that atheism is true,"

That doesn't make any sense. The A in Atheism is a negative, Atheism can't "be true". Religion can be wrong, though. Also: it actually varies from Atheist to atheist. That's why we have the Dawkin's scale.


"Likewise, even if the theist isn’t able to make his case that God exists that doesn’t show God does not exist and therefore that atheism is true."

We are not making that claim you idiot. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. You said agnosticism was specifically the belief that God was "Unknowable", a position I completely deny. Therefore, I always was an Atheist the second I started thinking about it and never went through an agnostic phaze.

Originally posted by De Ha
"Is Atheism a Belief or a Lack of Belief?" (By Trent Horn)

""When asked to prove atheism is true, many atheists say that they don’t have to prove anything."

Correction: it doesn't make any sense.

"They say atheism is not “belief there is no God” but merely “no belief in a God.” Atheism is defined in this context as a “lack of belief” in God, and if C ...[text shortened]... was an Atheist the second I started thinking about it and never went through an agnostic phaze.

'Interesting, you choice of words implies that the entire belief system of an atheist depends entirely on some theist we just met.'


Playing it a bit loose with the word 'interesting' there Dasa.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Some of the things you admitted seemed to indicate that you were somewhat open minded.

But I make no secret of the fact I am "somewhat open minded", so I don't see how I can be said to have admitted things that indicate it to be so.

I was open minded enough to be able to re-approach and reappraise my Christian beliefs - even after holding them for the better part of three decades - and come to the realization that I was no longer able to justify subscription to the things that Christians claimed about God and Jesus Christ.

I have been candid about all these things throughout my time in this community. I haven't just "admitted" something to you. The notion is daft. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF

I was open minded enough to be able to re-approach and reappraise my Christian beliefs

Are "open minded" people only those who arrive at the same conclusions you did ?

Are only Christians who arrive at the same decisions you made the ones who re-evaluate their beliefs ?

Originally posted by sonship

I was open minded enough to be able to re-approach and reappraise my Christian beliefs

Are "open minded" people only those who arrive at the same conclusions you did ?

Are only Christians who arrive at the same decisions you made the ones who re-evaluate their beliefs ?

The bottom line is still you considering agnosticism and atheism as worthy of nothing but derision. That much is clear from your ever more volumous posts, which everyone will agree, NOBODY actually reads full through.

That alone charts you as just another divisor of humanity, not a gatherer.

Oh sure, you want to gather, but you want to be in charge of the gathering, you have no interest in being a mere watcher while others garner the glory.

You are a religious glory seeker and nothing more.

Just another clue to you why I reject proselytizing and modern religions as nothing more than an effort, very successful ones, at controlling people and at the same time putting women on a lower platform from men.

All that based on the verse that goes a man is worth 50 sheckels but a mere woman only 30.

That has blighted 2000 years of human history and also is fundamental in Islam and Judaism.

A god would NEVER EVER say such a cruel and unwarranted things.

I'm waiting for it.

I'm waiting.

For the 'so now you think you know the mind of god card' you will pull.\

Or card #2, 'why do you hate god so' card.

It should be clear it is not the non-existant god I hate, it is the religion itself, all three of the devils spawn Abrahamic religions. Those came from people, not god.

You of course will defend that to the death but that in fact is the major result of such religions, at each other's throats to the death, for the last 3000 years.

Prove I am wrong about that, I dare you.