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  1. Standard member Dasa
    05 Sep '15 02:40
    jiva (soul)

    - floats in prana in the heart cavity (Katha Up. 1.3.1); prana is one but acts in different ways, movement of prana leads to identification with the body (SB 4.29.71), lower pranas control the senses and are under the control of main prana controlled by the Supersoul (Paramatma) according to desire and karma of the soul. Consciousness is spread all over the body through blood (also moving due to prana). Soul controls the pranas in a sense that he enjoys their movements. Demigods control the pranas in a sense that they define the activities of the senses (Surya is lord of sight because the sun defines what is visible to the eyes.) Real master of the eye is Paramatma.

    - model of interaction with gross and subtle bodies and Paramatma: Schools of Dvaita Vedanta in agreement with Vedas (Rig Veda 1.164.20-22) and Upanishads (Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.1, Shvetashvatara Upanishad 3.20, 4.6-7) teach that jiva/atma and Paramatma (Supersoul) are situated in the body like two birds on a tree. Their mutual interaction can be explained by an example of a computer:
    Physical body can be compared to hardware, subtle/astral body to software false ego (ahankara) to interface, prana to electricity, soul (jiva/atma) to user and Paramatma to system operator controlling a network of many computers, or bodies (Bhagavad gita 13.3). Functionality of this system in interaction with the material world is defined by the condition of bodies (age, health, abilities, etc.). When one gross body is completely out of use, jiva has to leave it and Paramatma assigns her another one according to her needs, desires and merits (reincarnation).- compared to a seed planted into the womb of internal energy, with the help of sravanam kirtanam it grows and develops spiritual body and mind

    - 5 kosas (sheats, coverings, parts of subtle body) (Taittiriya Upanisad 2.1-5, BG 13.5p., SB 6.15.12-15p.):

    annamaya - mind oriented on food
    pranamaya - on bodily effort
    manomaya - on mental activities
    vijnanamaya - on intellectual discrimination
    anandamaya - impersonal spiritual happiness (vimukta-manina)

    Suhotra Prabhu:

    Causal body (karana-deha) is a subtle body (linga-sarira) purified by mystic yoga (one can reach the edge of Causal ocean/Karana-jala in it). Preliminary anandamaya is perceived by Brahma and after being transcended, real anandamaya (KC) develops in svarupa, or siddha-deha (spiritual body and mind.) Gross body (sthula-sarira) is nourished by annnamaya consciousness (anna - grains) which predominates in Bhur-loka. Living entities in pranamaya, manomaya and vijnanamaya are civilized humans on Bhur-loka, Bhuvar-loka (mainly water and liquid elements; e.g. moon - cooling and nectar producing effects), Svarga-, Mahar-loka (mainly fiery elements). On Jana-, Tapo-loka (airy elements) and Satya-loka (ethereal elements) live great mystics with asta-siddhi who transcended linga-sarira and have karana-deha. In this body does not exist gross and subtle enjoyment but still there is false ego - they are attached to their positions in the universe. Between material and spiritual mind is no connection (not that lustful mind means madhurya rasa svarupa). While material consciousness predominates, spiritual mind sleeps, everything is like a dream (SB 4.29.2b).

    - bhakti inherent to jiva though awakened by guru:

    CC Madhya 19.151:
    brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
    guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija

    According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. By the mercy of both Krsna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.

    CC Madhya 20.117:

    krsna bhuli' sei jiva anadi-bahirmukha
    ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha

    Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy (maya) gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.

    CC Madhya 22.107:

    nitya-siddha krsna-prema 'sadhya' kabhu naya
    sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

    Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.

    (CC Antya 3.78-86 Caitanya M. liberated all living entities and enabled the manifestation of the unmanifested (suksma) living entities (present inhabitants of this universe) who were merged in material elements, inactive, fully unconscious and out of samsara. Interplanetary space is constituted mainly of ether (akasa) and is full of suksma-jivas.

    - falldown:
    BG 7.27p. - "deluded into separation and becomes controlled by illusory energy" SB 7.13.5 - both states (baddha/moksa) illusory SB 11.2.37 - words isad apetasya specify that the jiva left the company of Isa, the Lord (Monier Monier-Williams: apeta - mfn. escaped, departed, gone, having retired from, free from (abl. or in comp.)) and thus became overwhelmed by the fear of duality.

    On his way to material world the soul is given three chances by Krsna (in the form of 3 Visnus) to stay in the spiritual world by taking shelter of any of Them. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says in the purport to Brahma-samhita 5.16 that when the souls emanate from Mahavisnu they can surrender to Him and live in Vaikuntha: "The innumerable jivas as spiritual particles emanating from the oversoul in the form of pencils of rays of effulgence, have no relation with the mundane world when they come to know themselves to be the eternal servants of the Supreme Lord. They are then incorporated into the realm of Vaikuntha. But when they desire to lord it over Maya, forgetting their real identity. the egotistic principle Sambhu entering into their entities makes them identify themselves as separated enjoyers of mundane entities."

    According to SB 3.20.16 when they collectively appear in Hiranyagarbha (Garbhodakasayi Visnu) they can surrender to Him and live in Brahma-loka: "From the navel of the Personality of Godhead Garbhodakasayi Visnu sprouted a lotus flower effulgent like a thousand blazing suns. This lotus flower is the reservoir of all conditioned souls, and the first living entity who came out of the lotus flower was the omnipotent Brahma. Purport: It appears from this verse that the conditioned souls who rested within the body of the Personality of Godhead after the dissolution of the last creation came out in the sum total form of the lotus. This is called hiranyagarbha."

    According to SB 4.21.36 when the soul appears in human form by the mercy of Paramatma (Ksirodakasayi Visnu) he gets the chance to receive knowledge from guru, to perform devotional service and to return back to Godhead. If he does not take advantage of it he falls into sense gratification and samsara: "There is specific mention of the word gurum, which indicates the Supreme Personality as caitya-guru. The Supreme Godhead in His Paramatma feature is present in everyone's heart, and He is always trying to induce the individual soul to surrender unto Him and to engage in devotional service; therefore He is the original spiritual master."

    SB 4.29.4 p.: "Originally the living entity is a spiritual being, but when he actually desires to enjoy this material world, he comes down. From this verse we can understand that the living entity first accepts a body that is human in form [SB 9.24.58 p. - Brahma's], but gradually, due to his degraded activities, he falls into lower forms of life - into the animal, plant and aquatic forms. By the gradual process of evolution, the living entity again attains the body of a human being and is given another chance to get out of the process of transmigration. If he again misses his chance in the human form to understand his position, he is again placed in the cycle of birth and death in various types of bodies."

    The reason _why_ we, the souls, left Lord's blissful association is our small independence. We can choose to stay with the Lord or not. This is our eternal nature of marginal potency (tatastha-sakti). We thought that the kingdom of Maya is worthy to check out. When we leave the spiritual world we are captured by Maya and when we realize our fault we try to get back. Lord would like us to stay with Him but He doesn't bar us from leaving Him. Out of His mercy, however, He is all the time with us as the Supersoul and helps us in many ways. And when we come back to our original position He is more happy than us. The odyssey of the fallen soul is illustrated in the Brhad-bhagavatamrta 2 by Sanatana Gosvami and the Biblical parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11 onward).

    - four imperfections: (SB 10.13.15p.) karanapatava (imperfect senses), pramada (tendency to be illusioned), bhrama (committing mistakes), vipralipsa (tendency to cheat).

    - size of (a human) thumb: (Mahabharata, Satyavati akhyana) Yama forcibly dragged the thumb-like soul from the body of Satyavan (aNguSThamaatram puruSam niScakaRSa balaa yamaH - Ta. 10.38.1 (?))

    - spiritual qualities (8) sought by: (Vedanta-sutra 1.3.18)

    "The term dahara does not refer to the jiva, because the dahara is the source of eight spiritual qualities sought after by the jiva (apahata-papa - freedom from sins, vijara - freedom from old age, vimrtyu - freedom from death, visoka - freedom from material distress and happiness, vijighatsa - freedom from hunger, apipata - freedom from material desire, satya-kama - spiritual desire, satya-sankalpa - self-fulfillment)."
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    05 Sep '15 03:12
    Originally posted by Dasa
    jiva (soul)

    vijara - freedom from old age,
    You spelt Viagara wrongly.
  3. 05 Sep '15 03:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    You spelt Viagara wrongly.
    He also spelled jiva wrong, it's jive not jiva.

    Sure, there is soul in jive. That much he got right.
  4. Standard member trakoz
    Electrical Engineer
    05 Sep '15 05:33
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    You spelt Viagara wrongly.
    Think again before you rise your voice.
  5. Standard member trakoz
    Electrical Engineer
    05 Sep '15 05:34
    Originally posted by Dasa
    jiva (soul)

    - floats in prana in the heart cavity (Katha Up. 1.3.1); prana is one but acts in different ways, movement of prana leads to identification with the body (SB 4.29.71), lower pranas control the senses and are under the control of main prana controlled by the Supersoul (Paramatma) according to desire and karma of the soul. Consciousness is spread a ...[text shortened]... reedom from material desire, satya-kama - spiritual desire, satya-sankalpa - self-fulfillment)."
  6. Standard member wolfgang59
    05 Sep '15 08:04
    Originally posted by trakoz
    [b]Think again before you rise your voice.[/b]
    I did not rise my voice.
    Nor raise my voice if that is what you meant.
    I think the words then type.
    I don't have to speak aloud ... do you?
  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    06 Sep '15 01:59 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by trakoz
    [b] TREMENDOUS INPUT. [/b]
    Do you interpret this as a belief in many gods?

    The Vedas are chiefly concerned with mythologies and rituals related to a number of deities, most of which are identified with aspects of the natural world.

    Essence Of The Vedas