Originally posted by josephw The separate contexts are what is confounding you. To be one in spirit or of mind and purpose is one thing, but to be one in substance and nature is another.
The Jews understood Jesus to mean that He was equal to God by what He said because what Jesus said was that He and the Father were one. An accusation Jesus did not deny.
You're are in denial of that point.
You are simply making stuff up that is not explicitly stated in the verse, the verse does not say that Jesus is one is substance and nature, you simply made it up or rather the trinitarian that you're a sock puppet for made it up. why do you need to resort to extra Biblical terms to explain your stance? Shall I tell you what we all know? because your doctrine is also extra biblical.
Were the Jews wrong about christ breaking the sabbath? yes? then they were also wrong about him making himself equal to God. You have nothing but the word of Jesus enemies.
Originally posted by josephw The separate contexts are what is confounding you. To be one in spirit or of mind and purpose is one thing, but to be one in substance and nature is another.
The Jews understood Jesus to mean that He was equal to God by what He said because what Jesus said was that He and the Father were one. An accusation Jesus did not deny.
You're are in denial of that point.
If you are seeking the truth you would ignore what the Jews understood.
Christ is saying one thing in many different ways ie that GOD IS GREATER THAN HIM.
Yet you foolishly gravitate to the blind, foolish, hypocritical Jews and Pharisees.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie That is simply another lie, Jesus did not say that he was equal to God, his enemies claimed it, not Jesus, those very same enemies whose charge against Christ you would now have us believe.
I see you are still parroting these old trinitarian falsehoods, I would be pleased if you will explain the following,
at John 17:21, 22, Jesus prayed reg ...[text shortened]... us believe?
I have no problem listening to Jesus, its his enemies that I have a problem with.
Obviously God is one is not referring to the number one, but a unity, as in the Triune God. The Son being able to do what He sees the Father do, indicated He is equally God with the Father.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(John 1:1, 14 KJV)
He was in the beginning with God and He was God (John 1:1).
Jesus is not denying to be equal with God just because He says the Father is greater than I. Jesus has the fullness of the Godhead dwelling in Him bodily (Col. 2:9) and He is in the form of God and does not think it robbery to be equal with God (Phil. 2) by making Himself equal with God (John 5:18).
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Its not a different context nor is it a different word and I dont have the problem, you do. Jesus uses the exact same word in exactly the same manner, you will now tell us why its use is any different and you will now tell us if the disciples are also equal to God and part of the trinity, they being one with Jesus and God. If you will not or cannot ...[text shortened]... te that I have not addressed the question are rather plastic, transparent, tedious and pathetic.
Don't be so shallow! We all use the same words in different context to mean different things.
You're simply out of context with your interpretations, especially when it comes to the identity of Christ.
And you still can't seem to bring yourself to reply to the issue I have repeatedly mentioned concerning why Jesus said exactly what He knew the Jews would understand to mean that He was "making Himself equal with God".
What's more, you agree that Jesus had a pre-incarnate existence, but can't provide a single verse that says who He was, but you insist on believing Jesus isn't what the hundreds of verses throughout scripture say He is! 🙄
Originally posted by FMF I have heard some Christians claim that He was the archangel Michael.
You've heard Jehovah's Witnesses make that claim, and others that don't know what they're talking about either. But that's not what God says.
Everybody and their mothers, besides the few million others that have trouble thinking, knows what the Bible teaches concerning the identity of Christ.
Originally posted by josephw Don't be so shallow! We all use the same words in different context to mean different things.
You're simply out of context with your interpretations, especially when it comes to the identity of Christ.
And you still can't seem to bring yourself to reply to the issue I have repeatedly mentioned concerning why Jesus said exactly what He knew the Jews wo ...[text shortened]... u insist on believing Jesus isn't what the hundreds of verses throughout scripture say He is! 🙄
I believe Jesus i just don't believe you or your friends the Pharisees upon whose testimony you base your faith. Not only that you cannot tell us why the disciples are also not part of the trinity and equal to God following your logic and reasoning. Quite frankly i don't know why anyone should believe a word you say.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I believe Jesus i just don't believe you or your friends the Pharisees upon whose testimony you base your faith. Not only that you cannot tell us why the disciples are also not part of the trinity and equal to God following your logic and reasoning. Quite frankly i don't know why anyone should believe a word you say.
I'm not asking you to believe me. I don't believe you, why should I expect you to believe me?
I believe God. So should you! So should everybody!
But you're still not perceiving the verses in question correctly.
The Jews accused Jesus of making Himself equal with God based on Jesus' own testimony about Himself. Jesus said what He knew the Jews would interpret as making Himself equal with God. Do you think Jesus was in error when He said what He said to the Jews that caused them to say He made Himself equal with God?
What a screwed up idea it is to think the accusation was false when the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant by what He said! To say the accusation was false is to say Jesus made an error in His speech!
Originally posted by josephw I'm not asking you to believe me. I don't believe you, why should I expect you to believe me?
I believe God. So should you! So should everybody!
But you're still not perceiving the verses in question correctly.
The Jews accused Jesus of making Himself equal with God based on Jesus' own testimony about Himself. Jesus said what He knew the Jews wou ...[text shortened]... false is to say Jesus made an error in His speech!
Like I said before, you need to see that.
You are asking me to believe you, you are trying to tell me without the slightest evidence that my understanding of the verses is incorrect, I don't believe you and I don't believe Jesus enemies either. There is not the slightest evidence that they understood what Jesus meant and I have proven that they were mistaken with regard to Jesus breaking the sabbath of which they also accused him. You have provided nothing but your opinion which I don't believe.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie You are asking me to believe you, you are trying to tell me without the slightest evidence that my understanding of the verses is incorrect, I don't believe you and I don't believe Jesus enemies either. There is not the slightest evidence that they understood what Jesus meant and I have proven that they were mistaken with regard to Jesus breaking the ...[text shortened]... f which they also accused him. You have provided nothing but your opinion which I don't believe.
I already told you I don't expect you to believe me, and unless you're going to call me a liar outright just take my word for it.
John 5:17,18
14 Jun '15 12:40
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