1. Standard memberapathist
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    15 Jan '17 02:27
    I won't stop making non-abrahamic threads here. But I was wondering.

    The hebrews were chosen. First. The battling prophets (jesus vs moe) came later, and they are a couple of centuries apart in cultural development, but they agree that they hate each other to death, and then hate the jews on the side., and often foremost.
    My question is do the jews seek converts? Are they both a religion and a race? They haven't bothered me any. Are they a danger if left alone?

    They are in and have been in a really hard place.
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    15 Jan '17 02:47
    Originally posted by apathist
    I won't stop making non-abrahamic threads here. But I was wondering.

    The hebrews were chosen. First. The battling prophets (jesus vs moe) came later, and they are a couple of centuries apart in cultural development, but they agree that they hate each other to death, and then hate the jews on the side., and often foremost.
    My question is do the jews seek ...[text shortened]... d me any. Are they a danger if left alone?

    They are in and have been in a really hard place.
    http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html

    It would be discriminatory for Judaism to proselytize and try to convert those not of the religion. That would imply that everybody needs to be Jewish in order to make a relationship with God, participate in the Torah's vision of repairing the world, and "get to heaven." Yet this is not so.

    The idea of demanding that everyone convert is probably familiar to you as a Christian ideal. For example, a Baptist group in Florida recently spent over $1 million to distribute a video entitled "Jesus" to every household in Palm Beach County. It's no coincidence that 60 percent of these homes are Jewish.

    Be that as it may, the Jewish idea is that the Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. The Torah (as explained in the Talmud – Sanhedrin 58b) presents seven mitzvot for non-Jews to observe. These seven laws are the pillars of human civilization, and are named the "Seven Laws of Noah," since all humans are descended from Noah. They are:

    1) Do not murder.

    2) Do not steal.

    3) Do not worship false gods.

    4) Do not be sexually immoral.

    5) Do not eat the limb of an animal before it is killed.

    6) Do not curse God.

    7) Set up courts and bring offenders to justice.

    Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these laws earns a proper place in heaven. So you see, the Torah is for all humanity, no conversion necessary.
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    15 Jan '17 02:58
    Originally posted by apathist
    I won't stop making non-abrahamic threads here. But I was wondering.

    The hebrews were chosen. First. The battling prophets (jesus vs moe) came later, and they are a couple of centuries apart in cultural development, but they agree that they hate each other to death, and then hate the jews on the side., and often foremost.
    My question is do the jews seek ...[text shortened]... d me any. Are they a danger if left alone?

    They are in and have been in a really hard place.
    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ask-the-expert-proselytism/

    Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.

    Judaism doesn’t operate in the same way. According to the Talmud, righteous gentiles have a place in the World to Come (Sanhedrin 105a). As a result, there’s less of an incentive for Jews to encourage conversion, and for non-Jews to join up. If someone who isn’t born a Jew is a good person, she’ll get to hang out in the Garden of Eden whether or not she ever gets a Hebrew name.

    I think that’s really at the root of why Jews don’t proselytize, but there are a few other reasons that also figure in.

    First of all, historically there’s been a significant connection between proselytizing and politics. New groups come to power and coerce the local people to join their religion. Among many other advantages, converting conquered lands to your religion makes them easier to govern. This accounts for much of the spread of Christianity and Islam.
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    16 Jan '17 13:27
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html

    It would be discriminatory for Judaism to proselytize and try to convert those not of the religion. That would imply that everybody needs to be Jewish in order to make a relationship with God, participate in the Torah's vision of repairing the world, and "get to heaven." Yet this is not so.

    The idea ...[text shortened]... ns a proper place in heaven. So you see, the Torah is for all humanity, no conversion necessary.
    "The idea of demanding that everyone convert is probably familiar to you as a Christian ideal."

    Absolutely BS.
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    16 Jan '17 13:30
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ask-the-expert-proselytism/

    Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.

    Judaism doesn’t operate in the same way. According to the Talmud, righteous gentil ...[text shortened]... ion makes them easier to govern. This accounts for much of the spread of Christianity and Islam.
    Propaganda.
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    16 Jan '17 15:445 edits
    Originally posted by apathist
    The hebrews were chosen. First.


    They were chosen to reach the rest of mankind. The Bible does not begin with the calling of Abraham but with the creation of man.

    The Hebrews are a stepping stone for God to recover all of the human race.


    The battling prophets (jesus vs moe) came later,


    There is no battle in that sense between Jesus the Son of God and Moses.
    In God's economy Moses was only preparation for the Savior.
    The need for grace was established by the ministry of condemnation.

    The law of Moses was given to expose the depth of the sickness of the sin nature in fallen man.


    and they are a couple of centuries apart in cultural development, but they agree that they hate each other to death, and then hate the jews on the side.


    If you means Jesus and Moses hate each other to death that is ludicrous.
    if you mean some devoted to Moses hate Christians and some Christians hate Jews, that's a fact.

    It doesn't of course mean that I as a follower of Christ have to follow the example of such people.


    , and often foremost.
    My question is do the jews seek converts?



    Some people of their own accord seek to convert to Judaism. And why should it be strange that some Jews encourage them and help them ?


    Are they both a religion and a race? They haven't bothered me any. Are they a danger if left alone?


    You like religions that don't preach.
    They don't expect you to change.
    So you prefer a none outreach or none preaching faith.

    Is that how you're thinking?

    Preachers of the Gospel like myself, on the other hand, you like to chase down the road after them yelling - "Hey, stop trying to proselytize me!"

    "But Judaism, they're cool because they don't try to preach to you.
    Unlike Christians they don't seek converts.
    That's more legitimate. "

    Is that kind of how you're thinking ?

    Could you comment on God telling Israel that they would be a light to the nations here?

    " I am Jehovah [or Yahweh / JHWH] ; I have called You in righteousness; I have held You by the hand; I have kept You and I have given You as a covenant for the people and as a light for the nations.

    To open the eyes of the blind, To bring the prisoner out from the prison ..." (Isaiah 42:6,7a)


    That's God speaking though the Old Testament prophet Isaiah speaking.

    Doesn't it sound like this speaking of Jesus to His disciples ?

    " You are the light of the world. It is impossible for a city situated upon a mountain to be hidden. Nor do men light a lamp and place it under a bushel, but on the lampstand; and it shines in the house.

    In the same way, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in the heavens." (Matt. 5:15,16)


    One central motive of God to provide light to the people of the world seems to have not changed from Judaism to the Christian Gospel (in principle).
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    16 Jan '17 16:062 edits
    In the Old Testament God desired the example of the Israelites in their land under God's blessing to be a testimony to the whole world. The're existence was kind of corporate preaching to the Gentiles.

    Moses reviews the history of the Jews in Deuteronomy.

    "See, I have taught you statutes and judgments, as Jehovah my God commanded me, so that you would do them within the land which you are going in to possess.

    Keep and do them therefore; for this will be your wisdom and prudence in the sigh of the peoples who hear all these statutes and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and prudent people.

    For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as Jehovah our God is whenever we call upon Him ?

    And what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law which I am setting before you today? " (Deut. 4:4-8)


    Israel's existence was to be a preaching to the world.
    And don't look now, but especially in the West we have all been greatly influenced by this preaching.
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    16 Jan '17 16:122 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html

    It would be discriminatory for Judaism to proselytize and try to convert those not of the religion. That would imply that everybody needs to be Jewish in order to make a relationship with God, participate in the Torah's vision of repairing the world, and "get to heaven." Yet this is not so.

    The idea ...[text shortened]... ns a proper place in heaven. So you see, the Torah is for all humanity, no conversion necessary.
    Doesn't that depend on how rule 3, don't worship false gods is interpreted, per rule 7, bring offenders to justice?
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    16 Jan '17 16:352 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    .
    Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.


    Concerning your opinion here -
    Are you trying to convince anyone on the Forum to believe what you believe ?

    Proselytizer.
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    16 Jan '17 18:29
    Originally posted by JS357
    Doesn't that depend on how rule 3, don't worship false gods is interpreted, per rule 7, bring offenders to justice?
    Not sure what you have in mind here.
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    16 Jan '17 18:32
    Originally posted by sonship
    .
    Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.


    Concerning your opinion here -
    Are you trying to convince anyone on the Forum to believe what you believe ?

    Proselytizer.
    C'mon jaywill, You've repeatedly demonstrated that context means very little to you - be it what people post on this forum or even scripture - but c'mon.
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    16 Jan '17 19:42
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Not sure what you have in mind here.
    It responds to your "no conversion necessary."
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    16 Jan '17 19:501 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    It responds to your "no conversion necessary."
    I still don't get your point. Can you just plainly spell it out?

    Seems like maybe you don't understand the point of what was being said in the quoted text in that post, but I'm still not sure.
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    16 Jan '17 21:133 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    C'mon jaywill, You've repeatedly demonstrated that context means very little to you - be it what people post on this forum or even scripture - but c'mon.
    You big proselytizer, you.

    Give me your strongest case of me not considering context in the last month.
    I expect your next post to me to involve quotes and references so we can examine context together.

    C'mon now.

    ps By the way, did you ever demonstrate any invalidity to my exposition of John 6 ?
    That's the last contextural discussion we were having.
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    16 Jan '17 22:035 edits
    C'mon jaywill, You've repeatedly demonstrated that context means very little to you - be it what people post on this forum or even scripture - but c'mon.


    Let me guess. ToO "stepped away" for a moment.

    C'mon you big Unitarian proselytizer, you should be able to whip up an example of me ignoring biblical context right quick and in a hurry, if I'm SO prone to this.

    You mean in our recent exchange on John chapter six you can't locate some context violations ??
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