1. Melbourne, Australia
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    05 Jun '12 14:27
    Rudolf Bauer Ph.D. shares some good opinions on opinions.

    In his impressive and broad curriculum vitae (available at the link below and others of his contributions) we are informed that he has studied for over 30 years with Masters of Dzogchen Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shavism and Daoist Qi Gong.


    ".... 6. When you can come to the understanding that everything that is said is simply an opinion then you can happy embrace your own opinions as well as the opinion of another….that probably reflects your own opinion. Having such an opinionated understanding about opinions is freeing, and frees you both culturally and most of all from the childhood sequence of believing parental opinions as absolutes. Of course being a child with a concrete operational mind such experience, opinions as reality gives such opinions far too much power and can easily evacuate our own knowingness. Authoritative opinions definitely obscure the obvious. Through idealization and terror knowledge is deemed more then an opinion and becomes truth as such…which seems to give security, but actually forecloses direct perception. Of course, most religions love their own revealed authority and so what is said is definitively known…and so your job is to assent.
    Actually, Shakyamuni Buddha’s written words said, “Do not trust what I say or believe what I say…I only point out and you should experiment to see if it is true for you.” He also said, “Light your own fire.” Of course, religion is always looking for authority and Buddhism has Shakyamuni teaching here and there. As the primordial guru, the self revealing light is always manifesting as opinions.

    7. Then we always look to the other for an opinion and forget it is just an opinion. I tend to like opinions that actually reflect my own opinion…I know my own opinion implicitly and then enjoy using the reflections of others opinions…nonetheless, I know it is all opinion. The Karmapa says what he says is just an opinion…I see all traditions as opinions, I see all teachers as opinions...…all opinions.

    8. I once made a promise that I would trust my own experience which unfolds over time and would not believe. Being freed from believing actually is the greatest method for entering into direct perception and not staying in the land of intellectual assent or belief. Belief is the great substitute of knowingness."

    Rudolf Bauer Ph.D.

    http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness-as-phenomenology/article/the-ground-of-primordial-awareness-as-unconsciousness-and-unthought-and-not-thinkable
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
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    06 Jun '12 15:33
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Rudolf Bauer Ph.D. shares some good opinions on opinions.

    In his impressive and broad curriculum vitae (available at the link below and others of his contributions) we are informed that he has studied for over 30 years with Masters of Dzogchen Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shavism and Daoist Qi Gong.


    ".... 6. When you can come to the understanding that ev ...[text shortened]... /article/the-ground-of-primordial-awareness-as-unconsciousness-and-unthought-and-not-thinkable
    I think this is generally correct - one should test the opinions of others for themselves and not just accept them uncritically. There is not time and resources to do this for every opinion. So we must switch on our built-in doubter, as Asimov calls it, and weigh the opinion and test it accordingly. Doubt is applied at gradual levels based on the nature of the opinion and its correspondence with our other knowledge.
  3. Joined
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    06 Jun '12 16:29
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Rudolf Bauer Ph.D. shares some good opinions on opinions.

    In his impressive and broad curriculum vitae (available at the link below and others of his contributions) we are informed that he has studied for over 30 years with Masters of Dzogchen Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shavism and Daoist Qi Gong.


    ".... 6. When you can come to the understanding that ev ...[text shortened]... /article/the-ground-of-primordial-awareness-as-unconsciousness-and-unthought-and-not-thinkable
    "As the primordial guru, the self revealing light is always manifesting as opinions."

    Thanks for this post.

    I like to think of the opinion-forming part of me as a well-meaning but often overanxious adviser. One relatively safe place to practice, by telling that part of me to wait outside, is an art museum. It doesn't always work, but at least reminds me that art can be a certain kind of encounter, that one can apply elsewhere in life. Even when I find myself judging, I can look at what factors are letting it intrude.

    This forum might not be such an easy place to do that, since it seems like there are some anxious advisers here who think that putting off the formation of a belief (and it better be the right belief!) will spell misery and doom.
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    07 Jun '12 04:231 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    "As the primordial guru, the self revealing light is always manifesting as opinions."

    Thanks for this post.

    I like to think of the opinion-forming part of me as a well-meaning but often overanxious adviser. One relatively safe place to practice, by telling that part of me to wait outside, is an art museum. It doesn't always work, but at least reminds me ...[text shortened]... ff the formation of a belief (and it better be the right belief!) will spell misery and doom.
    Thanks JS357. The many opinions of the forum are ok, but I find that if it stops there in terms of ones spiritual* journey, one remains in the same domain as secular opinion swapping, and sometimes fighting. Your reference to art, which includes for me, music and literature points to another way of approaching one's spiritual explorations and indeed many find there, a sufficient path to engage their higher aspirations and reflections.

    Many significant spiritual themes are subtle by their very nature, and opinion sharing alone, though helpful, never quite fully takes us into that place of inner experiencing, that responds to great music, great words that move us or great imaginal portrayals. At some point one simply shares as best one can what it is like this inner life of real spiritual exploring, which finally is a very individual thing and much more than throwing opinions around in our head or with someone else. Its a sharing much more like sharing the impact of a great painting or poem, one doesn't argue, one just shares and appreciates another view, experience or expression.

    * Just as an aside, when you look up synonyms for 'spirituality' they are many and varied, which is a problem with the word. English tends to fail in describing in this area. Some perhaps more accurate words I found are below but they are either not common speech or don't quite fit either.

    innominate
    supramundane
    timeless
    holistic
    universal
  5. Joined
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    07 Jun '12 04:44
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Thanks JS357. The many opinions of the forum are ok, but I find that if it stops there in terms of ones spiritual* journey, one remains in the same domain as secular opinion swapping, and sometimes fighting. Your reference to art, which includes for me, music and literature points to another way of approaching one's spiritual explorations and indeed many find ...[text shortened]... peech or don't quite fit either.

    innominate
    supramundane
    timeless
    holistic
    universal
    Thanks. I have wondered about a better way to describe this thing, spirituality. I remember old sayings about speaking of, and knowing of, being mutually exclusive.

    I will be away for several days and may reply further later.
  6. Melbourne, Australia
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    07 Jun '12 13:06
    I will also be away for a few days.
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 Jun '12 14:04
    "You should not start reasoning from these perceptions, nor allow them to give rise to conceptual thought; yet nor should you seek the One Mind apart from them or abandon them in your pursuit of the Dharma. Do not keep them or abandon them nor dwell in them nor cleave to them.

    Above, below, and around you, all is spontaneously existing... for there is nowhere which is outside the Buddha-Mind (consciousness)."

    Huang Po
  8. Joined
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    12 Jun '12 17:361 edit
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Rudolf Bauer Ph.D. shares some good opinions on opinions.

    In his impressive and broad curriculum vitae (available at the link below and others of his contributions) we are informed that he has studied for over 30 years with Masters of Dzogchen Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shavism and Daoist Qi Gong.


    ".... 6. When you can come to the understanding that ev /article/the-ground-of-primordial-awareness-as-unconsciousness-and-unthought-and-not-thinkable
    interesting character, thanks for presenting him now i have some reading material!
    his view reflects on the discussion of belief i've been having recently.

    it is interesting that science is very taoist in principle. scientific progress is made on the doubt that something is true, rather than a belief in the truth of something. the same can be said for spiritual progress.
  9. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Jun '12 15:31
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    interesting character, thanks for presenting him now i have some reading material!
    his view reflects on the discussion of belief i've been having recently.

    it is interesting that science is very taoist in principle. scientific progress is made on the doubt that something is true, rather than a belief in the truth of something. the same can be said for spiritual progress.
    Doubt is the best known gate to new understanding. Getting stuck in the 'for and against' battle of egos and wits can leave one mired for many years. Glad you found him helpful. I like the way he puts things.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    13 Jun '12 15:451 edit
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Doubt is the best known gate to new understanding. Getting stuck in the 'for and against' battle of egos and wits can leave one mired for many years. Glad you found him helpful. I like the way he puts things.
    For some reason I am not able to link to that site at transmissionline.org.
  11. Joined
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    13 Jun '12 17:36
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For some reason I am not able to link to that site at transmissionline.org.
    i think they are updating their software
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
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    13 Jun '12 17:45
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    interesting character, thanks for presenting him now i have some reading material!
    his view reflects on the discussion of belief i've been having recently.

    it is interesting that science is very taoist in principle. scientific progress is made on the doubt that something is true, rather than a belief in the truth of something. the same can be said for spiritual progress.
    I think we need both doubters and believers. If there were no doubters, then any whacky theory would be accepted and we'd all waste lots of time exploring them. If there were no believers, then no theory could be established, and knowledge would not build up over time and generations.
  13. Joined
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    14 Jun '12 01:22
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I think we need both doubters and believers. If there were no doubters, then any whacky theory would be accepted and we'd all waste lots of time exploring them. If there were no believers, then no theory could be established, and knowledge would not build up over time and generations.
    the growth of knowledge depends entirely on the existence of disagreement.
    -popper

    it is false that no theory could be established without belief.
  14. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
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    14 Jun '12 03:47
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    the growth of knowledge depends entirely on the existence of disagreement.
    -popper

    it is false that no theory could be established without belief.
    Entirely??

    False?

    Would you kindly pass me some of whatever it is you and Popper are smoking? It must be some good shiit - don't be selfish. 😵
  15. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Jun '12 10:41
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For some reason I am not able to link to that site at transmissionline.org.
    Appears to be working ok now.
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