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It is an exhortation to the churching believers in Rome and everywhere.
The worldly unbelieving world may borrow it as some kind of proverb and derive
some ethical benefit from it. Like the "golden rule" is taken as a general wise ethical saying.
But it was specifically written to those who have presented their bodies a living sacrifice to Christ and the church as their reasonable service (Rom. 12:1).
Because Paul recognizes that the various believers are at various levels of spiritual growth he writes for them to function within the measure of grace that they currently have -
"If possible, as far as it depends on you . . . "
"On your part, according to your capacity, according to your level of maturity live in peace with everyone around you." The scope is "all men" whether in the household of faith or without it.
You cannot do the other person's part. You can only do what is possible with you in your present level of spiritual growth, depth of grace, mercy, patience, and love. As far as a Christian has advanced in the Christian life - "live in peace with all men".
-Removed-If it is possible, yes. Sometimes it is not possible. Jesus was not at peace with many of the Pharisees.
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8 KJV)
I think Paul's point is not to go around being a troublemaker because God hates such people:
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
(Proverbs 6:16-19 KJV)
Most of these 7 things which God hate are things which do not help with making peace.
-Removed-The key words in this passage are “as far as it depends on you”.
My work as a first response crisis clinician leads me to a lot of chaos. Most of the time, I do not know what I am going to encounter, but it alway involves either someone in crisis or at least their perception of a crisis. It is critical in those moments for me to remain calm...
In its entirety, Romans 12 provides practical strategies for living at peace. As. non-Christian, I find the admonitions of Paul sound and beneficial:
* “present your bodies as a living sacrifice” For me, this means being present with intention toward the circumstance at hand. (v. 1)
* “be not conformed to this world” and “be transformed by the renewing of your minds” (v. 2)
* “not to think more highly of [oneself] than [one] ought to think”. In other words, be humble. Also, “think soberly”...with reason and intent. (v.3)
* v. 5-8 points out that we can find support from those who are committed to a single cause by using the gifts that we have been given (our individual strengths) and relying on the strengths of others.
* act with “simplicity” and “show mercy”
* love without dissimulation (v. 10)
* be kind (v. 10)
* work fervently (v. 11)
* be hopeful, patient, and prayerful (this looks like taking time for periods of silence and reflection) (v. 12)
* be generous and hospitable (v. 13)
* “bless” everyone, no matter who they are or what they do to you (v. 14)
*be empathetic (vs. 14-15)
I guess that seems like a lot... but it boils down to simply being a decent human being and holding fast to the confidence that “peace with everyone” is a condition that begins and ends with me and how I meet every person in whatever circumstance the happen to be.
@rajk999 saidIs God hateful and not at peace? Both verses you have quoted are from the Old Testament and describe a way of perceiving God that Jesus reframed through peaceful living.
If it is possible, yes. Sometimes it is not possible. Jesus was not at peace with many of the Pharisees.
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8 KJV)
I think Paul's point is not to go around being a troublemaker because God hates such people:
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abominatio ...[text shortened]... 19 KJV)
Most of these 7 things which God hate are things which do not help with making peace.
As a former Christian, I understand Jesus as a peaceful being even when he discerned error in the teachings and practices of the Pharisees. It was they who were not at peace rather than. Jesus.
Even in the incidence of driving the money changers from the temple, Jesus may have been at peace with all, in the same way a loving parent disciplines a child or a soldier fights for his/her country or a cause.
@hakima saidSorry, I dont know what you are on about.
Is God hateful and not at peace? Both verses you have quoted are from the Old Testament and describe a way of perceiving God that Jesus reframed through peaceful living.
As a former Christian, I understand Jesus as a peaceful being even when he discerned error in the teachings and practices of the Pharisees. It was they who were not at peace rather than. Jesus.
Even in t ...[text shortened]... the same way a loving parent disciplines a child or a soldier fights for his/her country or a cause.
@hakima saidI'm at peace with your peace.. 😀
That’s ok.
I’m at peace with that.
The ability to express yourself so that others can understand what you say, is a critically important skill. If you speak or write and someone says they dont understand, then you should be happy to repeat what you said a different way. If you dont do that, then you are displaying a kind of arrogance and disdain which is not at all like the Jesus of whom you spoke. Jesus spoke clearly and precisely, speaking in parables only around certain people. Try to be like Jesus, instead of just taking about Him.
@rajk999 saidThe fact that you spent another 100 words admonishing and criticizing my response is evidence that you are, in fact, not at peace with my peace.
I'm at peace with your peace.. 😀
The ability to express yourself so that others can understand what you say, is a critically important skill. If you speak or write and someone says they dont understand, then you should be happy to repeat what you said a different way. If you dont do that, then you are displaying a kind of arrogance and disdain which is not at all like the ...[text shortened]... king in parables only around certain people. Try to be like Jesus, instead of just taking about Him.
Generally, when a person tells me that they don’t understand what I have said or asks me to clarify, I am happy to do that. However, you asked, “What are you in about?” Which is a rude way of telling me that you don’t understand what I am trying to say and that you probably don’t want to understand even if I attempt to restate or clarify myself. It’s a waste of my time and peace to continue at that response.
As for Jesus’ teachings, as a non-Christian, I can only appreciate what I perceive his teachings to be. I wish you, who profess discipleship, all success at emulating him according to your own understanding.
Divegeester’s opening post referencing the admonitions of Paul have given me a very fine outline for the realization of my own inner peace and that of those of whom I come face to face in my professional practice. I’m personally appreciative of his post as a reminder and a framework for practicing that peace...
I wish peace to all in this forum regardless of their personal circumstances or relationship with peace.
Namaste
@hakima saidFor a 'peaceful' woman you sure are a skillful liar
The fact that you spent another 100 words admonishing and criticizing my response is evidence that you are, in fact, not at peace with my peace.
Generally, when a person tells me that they don’t understand what I have said or asks me to clarify, I am happy to do that. However, you asked, “What are you in about?” Which is a rude way of telling me that you don’t understand wh ...[text shortened]... all in this forum regardless of their personal circumstances or relationship with peace.
Namaste
I said Sorry, I dont know what you are on about.
I did not just say “What are you in about?”
Those two sentences are miles apart.
Peace is only in your mouth.
God hates. Liars, manipulators, deceivers.
@rajk999 said“Sorry, I don’t know what you’re on about”
For a 'peaceful' woman you sure are a skillful liar
I said Sorry, I dont know what you are on about.
I did not just say “What are you in about?”
Those two sentences are miles apart.
Peace is only in your mouth.
God hates. Liars, manipulators, deceivers.
and “What are you on (sic*) about?” are very close and their intent nearly identical.
It’s ok, Sweetpea...go ahead and lie in your heart about and find your peace there...
Regardless of offense, I could never pray to a hateful god...there is no peace there for me.
I hope you find your own peace.
*predictive text often changes “on” to “in”
@hakima saidYour words are sweet and kind on the surface, but your intent is malicious and evil. Save your 'kind' words for your husband. Fool him with that, On the internet chat site you should maintain a degree of formality instead of flirting with strange men. Did your religion not teach you that? If not common sense should.
“Sorry, I don’t know what you’re on about”
and “What are you on (sic*) about?” are very close and their intent nearly identical.
It’s ok, Sweetpea...go ahead and lie in your heart about and find your peace there...
Regardless of offense, I could never pray to a hateful god...there is no peace there for me.
I hope you find your own peace.
*predictive text often changes “on” to “in”