1. Melbourne, Australia
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    25 Jul '12 14:36
    [To the honoring and memory of all victims of violence, and for the mind-healing and enlightenment of their murderers:]

    "To act with deeds of loving kindness towards others is to adopt a certain kind of attitude, even one may say a certain kind of emotional stance. The characteristic emotional attitude is of course that of love (in the sense of a deep friendliness and empathetic attitude).

    The Buddhist term here is ‘mettā ’, which has a meaning much broader and deeper than that conveyed by the modern understanding of the
    word ‘love’. Such a love in its perfected form is characterized by being inclusive of all living beings, but it has as its basis the love that we feel for ourselves and those closest to us.

    The basic emotional attitude of mettā can be elaborated further as the Four Brahma-vihāras or Sublime abodes.
    Mettā is the first of the Brahma-vihāras and the basis of the other three abodes,

    karuṇā or compassion,

    muditā or sympathetic joy and

    upekkhā or equanimity.

    Thus when faced by the suffering of others ‘mettā ’ is expressed as karu.nā or compassion.

    When faced with the happiness of living beings ‘mettā ’ is expressed as muditā or sympathetic joy.

    Finally, when faced by the suffering and happiness of others in the light of the conditions that caused that suffering or happiness, mettā is expressed as upekkhā or equanimity or tranquillity.

    By tranquillity is meant not a cold indifference, but a tranquillity that arises from the insight that any state of existence is impermanent and can therefore change into something better and higher."

    Source: http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol4/Postmodern%20Ethics%20A%20Buddhist%20Response2.pdf
  2. Account suspended
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    25 Jul '12 16:101 edit
    Originally posted by Taoman
    [To the honoring and memory of all victims of violence, and for the mind-healing and enlightenment of their murderers:]

    "To act with deeds of loving kindness towards others is to adopt a certain kind of attitude, even one may say a certain kind of emotional stance. The characteristic emotional attitude is of course that of love (in the sense of a deep frie : http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol4/Postmodern%20Ethics%20A%20Buddhist%20Response2.pdf
    Its a noble and virtuous endeavour for sure. The English word, does not convey
    these particular connotations. The Biblical text also reflects these attributes, for
    example, 'you must love your neighbour as yourself', again emphasising that we
    must cultivate self love in order that we can display the same love to others, which
    is not always easy, for we see and realise that within us there are traits that we do
    best to dispense with, egotism, jealousies, strife and anger, etc etc The caterpillar
    becomes a chrysalis and when it emerges it is transformed, metamorphosed so that
    it resembles something entirely different, so to the pearl, which begins as a grain of
    sand acts as an irritant to the oyster and in order for the oyster to find comfort it
    must salve over the grain of sand and turn it into something of great value and
    beauty. Are we not also shaped by suffering to be more empathetic to those who
    suffer? To take what irritates us and turn it into something beautiful?
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    25 Jul '12 16:461 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its a noble and virtuous endeavour for sure. The English word, does not convey
    these particular connotations. The Biblical text also reflects these attributes, for
    example, 'you must love your neighbour as yourself', again emphasising that we
    must cultivate self love in order that we can display the same love to others, which
    is not always e ...[text shortened]... thetic to those who
    suffer? To take what irritates us and turn it into something beautiful?
    Yes, indeed Robbie. Thank you.
    It is hard to forgive, for the heart cries vengeance. Forgiveness is not an avoidance of the just outcomes of acts against our fellow man, for both constraint and due careful and just judgement of human society must be enacted. But if we are ever to heal ourselves or others of any damage to the inner spirit, the "conscience" then, it seems to me, that jammed and rejecting inner door can only be opened eventually by the demonstration of active compassion, or Christian grace and forgiveness. Everything cries in us for vengeance but it thus reseeds the hatred and binds our hearts to the suffering we feel. By forgiving and seeking the healing of the other we begin to heal ourselves as a society and as persons.
    It will ever be with us, for that is part of the dark side of existence, but through it, by learning, practising compassion for both killed and killer, we as humans can find even there the hidden light to show the way out.
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    25 Jul '12 16:50
    Didn't realize my copy and paste was messy. Can't change it now.
  5. Joined
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    25 Jul '12 17:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its a noble and virtuous endeavour for sure. The English word, does not convey
    these particular connotations. The Biblical text also reflects these attributes, for
    example, 'you must love your neighbour as yourself', again emphasising that we
    must cultivate self love in order that we can display the same love to others, which
    is not always e ...[text shortened]... thetic to those who
    suffer? To take what irritates us and turn it into something beautiful?
    The link referenced by Taoman has I believe three mentions of the Bible, which may be of interest to you. The author draws a distinction as follows: "Buddhism turns to our own psychology, to our own experience, rather than to an external source such as God or the Holy Bible for its ultimate source of moral understanding." But these two routes come to much the same point in their valuation of loving kindness/compassion. This is understandable.

    The link looks like a good 13 page read, the first few pages providing a good analysis of how the West has come to rethink the philosophical underpinnings of morality.
  6. Joined
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    25 Jul '12 20:12
    Originally posted by JS357
    The link referenced by Taoman has I believe three mentions of the Bible, which may be of interest to you. The author draws a distinction as follows: "Buddhism turns to our own psychology, to our own experience, rather than to an external source such as God or the Holy Bible for its ultimate source of moral understanding." But these two routes come to much the ...[text shortened]... good analysis of how the West has come to rethink the philosophical underpinnings of morality.
    "Buddhism turns to our own psychology, to our own experience, rather than to an external source such as God or the Holy Bible for its ultimate source of moral understanding."


    The distinction is often exagerrated and generalized. For example, the God who is above and outside thoroughly becomes the God implanted and installed into man's very being.

    The eterenal life, rather than mainly a place to go to, is, in Christ's teaching a fountain installed within man bubbling up completely from within.

    "But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water gushing up into eternal life." (John 4:14)

    God may begin as the outside God. But this is abnormal. And God becomes the installed fountain within man "gushing up into eternal life" - very inward indeed.

    The inward God is seen again in chapter 7 -

    " ... Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Hhim were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, beause Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John :37b-39)

    Here again, God may begin as the transcendent outward God above man. Yet to believe into Christ is to receive into the "innermost being" the flowing of rivers of living water - a symbol of the Holy Spirit moving within man's being.

    To the Christain, the New Testament destination of expressing the glorious indwelling Triune God is a matter of the hope in the man -

    "To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory." (Col 1:27)

    The hope of glory, the glorious outshining expression of the Divine Being is the Christ IN the believers. Christ comes to be glorified IN His saints, from within them as thier divine life -

    " ... When He [Christ] comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ... in that day." (2 Thess. 1:10)

    Christ comes from Heaven in glory for sure. But just as importantly He comes up OUT of the beleivers to be glorified IN His saints and to be marveled at IN His saints in that day of His revelation to the world - the second coming.
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    26 Jul '12 13:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    "Buddhism turns to our own psychology, to our own experience, rather than to an external source such as God or the Holy Bible for its ultimate source of moral understanding."


    The distinction is often exagerrated and generalized. For example, the God who is above and outside thoroughly becomes the God implanted and installed into man' ...[text shortened]... t IN His saints in that day of His revelation to the world - the second coming.
    The chaplain sat by him into the night, the last night of that old faithless tramp, just holding his smelly hand, giving him a last taste of human dignity at least.
  8. Joined
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    22 Aug '12 22:40
    I practice loving kindness meditation. It is the most beautyful feeling there is. It is the Buddha's antidote to feelings of fear and hatred and can make you feel wonderful! 🙂
  9. Melbourne, Australia
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    23 Aug '12 03:52
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    I practice loving kindness meditation. It is the most beautyful feeling there is. It is the Buddha's antidote to feelings of fear and hatred and can make you feel wonderful! 🙂
    I see holding people/situations you are feeling concern for in awareness as you meditate as bringing benefit to all and is a specific expression of loving kindness.
    No words or appealing to deities or buddhas - just expanding one's awareness/mind outwards.

    As I see it, awareness arises with the arising of our inner thoughts, subsides as we return to stillness. In that awareness our already abiding interconnections from our "dependent originating" is enlivened and bit by bit greater and lesser harmonies are built or maintained, or helped to be influenced away from the erosion and suffering caused by ignorance.
    Sometimes I am not full of loving kindness but annoyed and temperamental. So when I come to my senses to a time of awareness, I then practice loving kindness towards myself too. Is there any other way that can work like this?
    Hatred, punishment and penalty divide and break down, never building up or healing. Dispelling ignorance we lose our clinging to a "self" that does not ultimately exist unto itself, but is part of a greater flowing and as we let go we too flow better.
    Do you think so too?
  10. Joined
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    23 Aug '12 11:00
    Originally posted by Taoman
    I see holding people/situations you are feeling concern for in awareness as you meditate as bringing benefit to all and is a specific expression of loving kindness.
    No words or appealing to deities or buddhas - just expanding one's awareness/mind outwards.

    As I see it, awareness arises with the arising of our inner thoughts, subsides as we return to stil ...[text shortened]... but is part of a greater flowing and as we let go we too flow better.
    Do you think so too?
    I agree, you have to first be able to love and forgive yourself before you can genuinely feel these feelings for others. You tend to treat yourself the way you treat others so knowing this it is even more important to love others. A hateful mind will send hate to all including oneself. A loving mind will love all, including oneself.

    The self is certainly a delusion and a burden so wonderfully expressed by Ajahn Chah:

    “Suppose we come to possess a very expensive object. The
    minute it comes into our possession out mind changes: “Now
    where can I keep it? If I leave it here somebody might steal it.”
    We worry ourselves into a state, trying to find a place to keep it.
    This is suffering. And when did it arise? It arose as soon as we
    understood that we had obtained something. That's where the
    suffering lies. Before we had obtained that object there was no
    suffering. It hadn't yet arisen because there was no object yet
    for the mind to cling to.
    The self is the same. If we think in terms of my self then
    everything around us becomes mine. And confusion follows. If
    there is no I and my then there is no confusion. ”
  11. Standard memberblack beetle
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    23 Aug '12 12:53
    Originally posted by Taoman
    The chaplain sat by him into the night, the last night of that old faithless tramp, just holding his smelly hand, giving him a last taste of human dignity at least.
    Do you remember the verses on an auspicious night?
    😵
  12. Melbourne, Australia
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    24 Aug '12 00:30
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Do you remember the verses on an auspicious night?
    😵
    I have difficulty differentiating the two, they appear to occur together.
    Do I remember because it is an auspicious night, or is it an auspicious night because I remember? Conditions arise and fall within, without.
    Stubbing his toe and tripping, he walks on.
    I have an auspicious visitor. 🙂
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    24 Aug '12 00:43
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    I agree, you have to first be able to love and forgive yourself before you can genuinely feel these feelings for others. You tend to treat yourself the way you treat others so knowing this it is even more important to love others. A hateful mind will send hate to all including oneself. A loving mind will love all, including oneself.

    The self ...[text shortened]... ecomes mine. And confusion follows. If
    there is no I and my then there is no confusion. ”[/i]
    Indeed. This expensive object of the good illustration - there arose a thought of the 'Jewel in the Heart of the Lotus', of trying to possess it, hold onto it as "mine" also.
    It would appear anything, or thought too clung to, no matter how elevated, can cause the deflection of loving kindness. And it does happen.
    A fruitful path of reflection. Thank you.
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    24 Aug '12 02:25
    Originally posted by Taoman
    I have difficulty differentiating the two, they appear to occur together.
    Do I remember because it is an auspicious night, or is it an auspicious night because I remember? Conditions arise and fall within, without.
    Stubbing his toe and tripping, he walks on.
    I have an auspicious visitor. 🙂
    Further, I stumble along... walking through the gate, is not all auspicious, even the forgetting? No different. Open space.
  15. Standard memberblack beetle
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    24 Aug '12 09:32
    Originally posted by Taoman
    I have difficulty differentiating the two, they appear to occur together.
    Do I remember because it is an auspicious night, or is it an auspicious night because I remember? Conditions arise and fall within, without.
    Stubbing his toe and tripping, he walks on.
    I have an auspicious visitor. 🙂
    Due to consciousness being bound by desire and lust, one’s mind delights in the past and thus one follows after the past.
    Due to consciousness being bound by desire and lust, one’s mind is inclined towards getting of what has not been gotten and thus, delighting in that, one follows after the future because he hopes for the future.

    Since I may die tomorrow, today I should be diligent. That deva could not remember the verses. Why so?
    😵
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