Spirituality
23 Mar 09
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by zozozozoI think I chosed an inapropriate thread titel, and thats all. I should have called the thread a more neutral name.
Mods, delete this thread and PM me the reason why the interesting evolution thread was deleted, ty🙂
However, I still think there is a need for a thread where evolution vs creationism, intelligent design inclusive, can be treated. As I see it now, we can read hot debates in many threads that has nothing to do with this issue. There is no way to discuss biology anywhere, in Science Forum included, without ending up with hot religious debates.
KellyJay promised to start such a thread, but he didn't keep his promise.
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasFirstly you need to decide what the threads main purpose is.
I think I chosed an inapropriate thread titel, and thats all. I should have called the thread a more neutral name.
However, I still think there is a need for a thread where evolution vs creationism, intelligent design inclusive, can be treated. As I see it now, we can read hot debates in many threads that has nothing to do with this issue. There is no ...[text shortened]... religious debates.
KellyJay promised to start such a thread, but he didn't keep his promise.
Is it: an attempt to address what you see as beliefs about the past that directly contradict the findings of science.
An attempt to educate those who hold such beliefs because of their ignorance of the science of evolution.
An attempt to argue with those who are perfectly well aware of the science of evolution but dispute it anyway because it contradicts their beliefs.
An attempt to argue with supporters of ID.
A scientific discussion of evolution with no real religious side to it.
A personal attack on one poster.
Something else?
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by twhitehead^I like these
An attempt to educate those who hold such beliefs because of their ignorance of the science of evolution.
An attempt to argue with those who are perfectly well aware of the science of evolution but dispute it anyway because it contradicts their beliefs.
Hopefully we can change ppls mind in such way that they will question thier beliefs and renounce from it. That would make the word a better place!🙂
"An attempt to argue with supporters of ID."
lol, "attempt" 😛
24 Mar 09
6 edits
Originally posted by zozozozoHopefully we can change ppls mind in such way that they will question their beliefs and renounce from it. That would make the word a better place!
^I like these
Hopefully we can change ppls mind in such way that they will question thier beliefs and renounce from it. That would make the word a better place!🙂
"[b]An attempt to argue with supporters of ID."
lol, "attempt" 😛[/b]
this type of statement always amazes me, for it is well known and clearly understood that philosophy and science as well as politics has NO ALTERNATIVE to offer, you have none, ol Nietzsche went crazy trying to formulate something better, yet you have the utter and complete audacity to state that you are able to make the world a better place, therefore let us hear your vision of a 'better world', what is the solution that will cure the pious and religious of their own delusions and make this world 'a better place'. you should print your own t-shirts! hand out pens and badges with your logo on it!
24 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSome wars were caused because different religions didnt like eachother right? The world is a better place without war in my opinion.
this type of statement always amazes me, for it is well known and clearly understood that philosophy and science as well as politics has NO ALTERNATIVE to offer, you have none, ol Nietzsche went crazy trying to formulate something better, yet you have the utter and complete audacity to state that you are able to make the world a better place, theref ll cure the pious and religious of their own delusions and make this world 'a better place'.
Also: When ppl stop praying, stop spending thier time on useless other things that have to do with thier religion they have time to strengthen thier bonds with other ppl, be better at work, exercise and be more healthy, etc.
All the money that goes to churches could go to cancer and aids research projects.
Yeah, i still think it would make the world a better place🙂
Im not saying i have an alternative to offer.
24 Mar 09
2 edits
Originally posted by zozozozothankyou, you have no alternative, remain blinded by your own preconceptions and ill informed prejudices and are worse than the meanest sinner praying to be a better person, for he, is at very least, able to determine he is in error. I could pick through and refute everyone of these delusions, but time is of the essence and motive is lacking, perhaps in future you will engage your mind before posting your unsubstantiated postulations of dogma! so do tell, if a persons religion is able to make them a more loving, caring and tolerant individual, what will he do once you rid him of his delusions? what will you supplant to make him conform to your new world standards? and just for the record, the greater number of persons killed in the twentieth century, were killed, not because of religion, but by atheists and socialists on the basis of a human philosophy, and yet you seek to impose, still further human philosophy in the guise of wisdom, please, have you roved and existed on the planet for so long and learned absolutely nothing?
Some wars were caused because different religions didnt like eachother right? The world is a better place without war in my opinion.
Also: When ppl stop praying, stop spending thier time on useless other things that have to do with thier religion they have time to strengthen thier bonds with other ppl, be better at work, exercise and be more healthy, etc. ...[text shortened]... think it would make the world a better place🙂
Im not saying i have an alternative to offer.
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"so do tell, if a persons religion is able to make them a more loving, caring and tolerant individual, what will he do once you rid him of his delusions?"
thankyou, you have no alternative, remain blinded by your own preconceptions and ill informed prejudices and are worse than the meanest sinner praying to be a better person, for he, is at very least, able to determine he is in error. I could pick through and refute everyone of these delusions, but time is of the essence and motive is lacking, perhap ...[text shortened]... om, please, have you roved and existed on the planet for so long and learned absolutely nothing?
I think we can all be loving, caring and tolerant without religion, i dont think ppl would have to be less of this when robbed from thier delusions.
I know religions can give ppl hope, thats an important thing that will be lost. People who are seriously ill might 'give up' sooner because they would have no god to bielieve in/to give them hope.
Then again i can see a little positive thing about that too, it could save money and room in hospitals...
"and just for the record, the greater number of persons killed in the twentieth century, were killed, not because of religion, but by atheists and socialists on the basis of a human philosophy,"
eh? are you saying these killings took part because the ppl were atheists and not religious?
"please, have you roved and existed on the planet for so long and learned absolutely nothing?"
roved?
ive not been here very long, but i do think i learned a couple of things🙂
24 Mar 09
4 edits
Originally posted by zozozozoyes people can be loving and caring without religion, but why does it give you the right to deem the religious worthy of your 'help'? and 'correction'? for you yourself have stated that you have no alternative to give them, nothing?
"[b]so do tell, if a persons religion is able to make them a more loving, caring and tolerant individual, what will he do once you rid him of his delusions?"
I think we can all be loving, caring and tolerant without religion, i dont think ppl would have to be less of this when robbed from thier delusions.
I know religions can give ppl hope, thats an i /b]"
roved?
ive not been here very long, but i do think i learned a couple of things🙂[/b]
save money and room in hospitals???? why don't you sign up for the Neo Nazi euthanasia program, anyone whom you deem unfit or unworthy of life, because their hope is keeping them alive, you could liquidate, making the world a better place??????
perhaps on the subject of economics, you will tell the forum, how many religious organizations that are independently involved in the research, development and manufacture of weapons, and compare that to their total expenditure, then make a comparison with the number of scientists also engaged in the research, development and manufacture of weapons for a developed country, say the United states? let us know how you get on?
I am saying the killings took place because of the adoption of a human ideology or a 'scientific' theory and applied in a social context. i.e. the theory of evolution, which became Social Darwinism, which was a direct factor not only in the first world war, but resulted in the deaths of millions of innocents in Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, China etc etc etc. thus it is self evident, that the adoption of scientific dogma in the guise of human ideologies have resulted in more pain, suffering, death and deprivation, not to mention, ignorance and prejudice than even the meanest religion of the middle ages could have hoped to achieve! refute it if you will!
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut Rabbie my trusty feer,
yes people can be loving and caring without religion, but why does it give you the right to deem the religious worthy of your 'help'? and 'correction'? for you yourself have stated that you have no alternative to give them, nothing?
save money and room in hospitals???? why don't you sign up for the Neo Nazi euthanasia program, anyone whom you dee ...[text shortened]... meanest religion of the middle ages could have hoped to achieve! refute it if you will!
Please forget not that Nazism and Stalinism are religions too. And everybody who follows blindly a doctrine is a religionist.
It seems to me that zozozozo says simply that the Human has to think all the time and that he has to evaluate everything on his own instead of following blindly a doctrine no matter of its origin. So I think that the “alternative” he offered is that the citizen has to use anytime anywhere anyhow his intelligence, and also that he has to hold himself fully responsible of his actions. If I did something, I did it because I wanted to do it and not because “god told me to do it”, that is🙂
Furthermore, for example the Orthodox Christians in Greece are making donations etc; however these donations are just a small percentage of their total economical power, so in my opinion these donations are just nothing. With all this unbelievable fortune they have due to their real estate alone, the Orthodox Greek Church could solve asap all the major financial problems of the country and still maintain uncountable assets🙂
Finally, regarding your other main question, I think we should ask for starters how many governments with differ religious bias are involved in the research, development and manufacture of weapons due to the fact that they have joined arms with their co-operational religious schemata that they support. Then we may realise what we could gain if all that money was a global expenditure for the common wealth as zozozozo poses it😵
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSociology has a lot to answer for.
I am saying the killings took place because of the adoption of a human ideology or a 'scientific' theory and applied in a social context. i.e. the theory of evolution, which became Social Darwinism, which was a direct factor not only in the first world war, but resulted in the deaths of millions of innocents in Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, China ...[text shortened]... n the meanest religion of the middle ages could have hoped to achieve! refute it if you will!
Seriously, though, social Darwinism predates Darwin by, oh, millenia. Where science has been helpful in increasing the body count is in the supply of lethal technology.
24 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"for you yourself have stated that you have no alternative to give them, nothing?"
yes people can be loving and caring without religion, but why does it give you the right to deem the religious worthy of your 'help'? and 'correction'? for you yourself have stated that you have no alternative to give them, nothing?
save money and room in hospitals???? why don't you sign up for the Neo Nazi euthanasia program, anyone whom you dee ...[text shortened]... meanest religion of the middle ages could have hoped to achieve! refute it if you will!
why do i have to figure out an alternative? Im creating extra time for these ppl, they can do whatever they like with it. If id get 1 hour extra each day id probably just use (not waste) it on sleeping. But this will result in more productivity during the day, which could be good for the economy etc if id work (but im a lazy student so the example doesnt work for me(yet):p).
If the ppl want alternatives for the origin of the earth, and the origin of life and such, i will point them at some interesting stuff like the Big Bang, the RNA world and evolution. I will tell them we can not be sure it went down like that, but that its most reasonable so far. I will tell them religious farytales are not reasonable at all.
"save money and room in hospitals???? why don't you sign up for the Neo Nazi euthanasia program, anyone whom you deem unfit or unworthy of life, because their hope is keeping them alive, you could liquidate, making the world a better place??????"
haha, i knew i was getting some sort of reaction of this kind to what i said:p
Im not talking about liquidating tho, it would have to be the persons own choice to die.
"let us know how you get on?"
yeah, this is kinda hard to figure out for me lol.
But ill agree that more scientists money goes to the development of weapons then church money. This sounds very reasonable.
But, im not saying the church money should be invested in weapons after everyone gave up thier religion, i gave to examples i think; cancer and aids research.
"thus it is self evident, that the adoption of scientific dogma in the guise of human ideologies have resulted in more pain, suffering, death and deprivation, not to mention, ignorance and prejudice than even the meanest religion of the middle ages could have hoped to achieve! refute it if you will!"
Could be, i hope we all learned from this. It doenst mean that religious is better then non-religious tho.
I will compare what u said to the following:
2 ppl,
1 killed 10 other ppl.
the second only killed 1. Lets all kill 1 ppl, so noone will kill 10.
Eh? No. lets not kill at all.
Originally posted by black beetle
"It seems to me that zozozozo says simply that the Human has to think all the time and that he has to evaluate everything on his own instead of following blindly a doctrine no matter of its origin."
Yes, absolutely!